[Game] Capital Defense (in develpoment)

I've had an idea for a game I think will work well in CC. I've named it Capital Defense: Battles in the Short Arm, and I think it has great potential. However,
- It's massive
- It requires some nice graphics
- It's going to take awhile
- It needs refinement.

I've posted the high concept, with the major game play features and a bit of the setting. Here's a short version, and the longer one is in captions below:

The Short Version


The player commands a Hulker, or a "Class A Space-Based Vehicle", and commands what can become a small fleet. Hulkers are capital vessels, with large cargo bays, multiple weapon platforms, as well as room for expansions like FTL drives, hangers and other weapons. They can also hire other freight ships to form a convoy, and purchase fighter craft to rest beneath her wings for combat engagements.

The player always sees action from the first person. He sits at a console on his ship and makes commands from there. He has access to a large number of menus, and is also able to travel to other parts of the ship to set commands and orders. Commands the player manages include navigation to various regions, communication with other vessels, commanding ship behaviour in battle (various divisions like turret focus, shield positions, deployment of crates etc.), trading, money management and so on. Inspiration comes from games like Sid Meier's Pirates! and Escape Velocity, with an emphasis on tactical combat, resource and ship management.

More Detail

Spoiler

Game play is open-ended. The player has a free universe to explore, a galactic map that they can fill through exploration, planets and space stations to trade with and purchase new equipment (or even new hulkers). The player must manage his money by raiding other ships, selling and buying cargo, and taking on delivery and bounty missions. A series of story missions may be made available- these will also be open ended.

Combat is designed to be a dynamic experience that is more predicated on wit and tactics than quick trigger fingers. The player will have a number of weapons available at his disposal, and how and when he choses to use them will change the way the game plays. Firing short range cruiser missiles will be a waste if the ships are out of range. Broadside turrets will not be able to fire if the ship is facing the wrong way. Countermeasures can be used to lure or even redirect enemy missiles and shields will need to be carefully managed to defend the right parts of the ship. And this doesn't even touch on crates, and their management, or defending your cargo ships from front-line bombardment. All these things will be manageable from an overlevel interface, in which commands are quickly given to various departments of the ship- engines, generator, batteries, ordinance and ECM, with a series of displays and tactical overlays, as well as "on the ground" information about each area of the ship being reported on. Damage to any area of the ship can cause various levels of failures ranging from lost engine power to cargo damage and eventual destruction of the ship itself- this is also true for your opponents (Crates of course, are either alive or dead).

When a vessel is sufficiently damaged (on either side) to be considered "disabled"- no power and no engines is the requirement for this, the player or enemy may choose to begin a boarding action. Here combat changes again, to a tactical battle for the ship. The player is able to maintain a small standing force of men on board the ship- these are then sent to fight in a real-time battle for the ship, by attacking and securing various areas and eventually capturing or killing the captain on the bridge. Repelling a capture attempt forces an end to the engagement, while a successful one allows a ransom, earning a great prize for the opposing side (some missions will also require a board to succeed).

Your ship will also need to be effectively manned, and crew members can be hired on planets and space stations. The more crew you have, the more you will need to pay in wages, but being short handed will mean your ship operates sub-optimally, in and out of combat.

Out of combat, the player is also able to try his hand at trading. Various systems will produce goods, and others will consume them- the player is able to make trading trips from one area to another to buy and sell various goods. Learning and operating trade routes is a critical skill in earning money. Prices can fluctuate from place to place, so monitoring prices in different systems is wise (a stock exchange upgrade for your hulker can do this). In addition to this, watching the local news will inform the player to events like shortage or surplus that may lead to radically different prices. To increase the player's cargo space they can hire transporters to work in a convoy- however they demand a high salary so should only be used for big trading runs.

Upgrading the user's ship is a personal choice, depending on their play style. Battle-oriented commanders may choose to use excess space purchasing extra guns, while the commander with ransom on his mind might fit that space with barracks to house additional troops and ship-hands. Trader commanders might instead fit it with cargo space, or additional batteries to power shields and weapons. The choice of weapons also allows commanders to make tactical choices in engagements- some may choose to use weapons that do core damage in the hopes of destroying their enemies, others may choose weapons that soften their opponent or damage critical systems to make the fight easier, and others still may take a more defensive role to engagement, preferring to knock out enemy fighters and disable enemy projectiles in the hope of coming out of each battle with as little damage as possible. Customization should be flexible, to match each player's own combat style.

Should a story be developed, the player will have a choice from one of several races to choose from, ranging a human from the imperial and oppressive United Earth Colonial Government, a Klegarthan from the submissive but staunch Occupied Kist, a Man of Mestor from the fiercely independent Mestor Systems, a Lepol the ancient, rich and decaying Deston Cest, a Benuin from the enigmatic Mad Clouds or a Servant from K-007. Each race has "preconceptions" with other races and varying levels of friendliness or hostility that influence the way they percieve you. Campaign missions done at the behest of various governments will lead to a series of story missions, based around differing objectives and resulting in changes to each individual faction, your standing within them and ownership of various systems.

I've yet to make much of a start on this because it's already clear this is going to be big, and it may take some time, especially with my other projects on the boil. So I'm posting it now with the hopes that some of you guys might be excited by the idea and have some ideas of your own on how to make it more interesting, or better still you might be a skilled programmer with some free time willing to lend a hand.

Either way looking for feedback. I'll post some concept art as dev goes on, and will move this to the program section when something playable has been released.

NF

Sounds great, it makes me think a bit of Star control 2, though I don't think that's quite what you're going for.. I would love to lend a hand on this project, would that I had more time on my hands with school and various other projects of mine own. I'll make sure to post any good ideas I get!

I really want to make a game i just haven't had any ideas yet…this sounds great i hope i can help
I just left for half term as well so i should have a lot of free time on my hands
Also, i love sid meiers pirates its one of my favorite games so if this is anything like it ill be stuck on it for hours

Holy crap nitro………… This is one freaking massive game.

This would be so fun to code :P/> Mind if I join in?

I made an outline of sorts of the features of the game based on your finer detail. You can add/subtract things if you want.

Spoiler

Captial Defence
- Hulker
- Mercenaries
  - 3 teirs, each with different damage to reload speed ratios
  - Heavy, with massive damage and really long reload
  - Light, with small damage, short reload
  - Medium, with medium damage, medium reload
- Freighters
  - 3 tiers, each of different sizes
  - Chose what to place where
  - Items cause freighters to weigh more, and become slower, forcing you to travel slower, and be slower to move/fire in combat
  - Can carry pathetic, cheap weapons
- Weapons
  - Long range Missiles
  - Short range
- Transport/Power
  - Sheild Batteries (3 teirs)
  - Fuel
  - Warp drives (faster to travel long distances)
  - Thrusters (faster to move around enemies)
  - Fine control thrusters (for presision in combat, leading to more accurate aiming)
- Defence
  - Sheilds
  - Anti-missile missiles
  - Flares
  - Cargo doors (security)
  - Distress signals (signaling distress ships to come help)
- Cargo
  - Under Trade Section


- Travel/Missions
- Galaxies/Travel
  - Multiple Galaxies
   - Xenox
   - Radex
   - Lumini
   - Optiex
   - Desegine
  - Stars
   - Resources
   - Dangers
  - Planets
   - People
   - Trade
   - Upgrades
   - Fuel
  - Manned Stations
   - Mercenaries
   - Personel
   - Fuel
- Storyline options
  - Government Conspiracy
  - Lost ship needing rescue
  - Favourite: Missing planet full of rare resources worth HUGE amounts of money. Stolen by rich pirates using a new government designed planetary mover


- Combat
- Pirates
  - Wanting resources/cargo, personel, mercenaries
  - Will attempt to attack cargo
  - Crappy ships, sometimes with hugely powerful stolen weapons
- Corrupt Government Vehicles
  - Wanting to send you to intergalactic jail
  - Will attempt to surround you and force you into the jail mothership
  - Highly secure
  - Valuable cargo
  - Massive defense systems
  - Pathetic to medium weapons
- Bounty Hunters
  - Wanting to destroy you
  - Will attempt to kill you
  - Massively customised ships
  - Largely varying weapon power to sheild strength ratio


- Trade
- Cargo (colors based on available CC colours)
  - Food
  - Water
  - Gold
  - Ruby
  - Saphire
  - Dark Matter (fuel)
- Personel
  - Pilots
  - Missilemen
  - Machine Gunmen
  - Cannonmen
  - Mechanics
  - Medics
  - Kamikaze 1 time use men
- Hulkers
  - Class E hulker (default, worst)
  - Classes D, C, B, A (best)
- Mercenaries/Freighters
  - Kamikaze 1 time use
  - Heavy (heavy damage, long reload time)
  - Light (low damage, fast reload time)
  - Tracer
  - Blackhole (1 time use, smashes into enemy creating massive blackhole. Yeah, you should get out of there quickly. Teleports you to another galaxy?)

Damn it screwed my indenting up…

I've done a little concept art for how this game might look.


Here's a picture of what the battle overview might look like. It shows the player in an engagement with another hulker on the starboard side. The player has chosen to move his hulker forwards to better line up his batteries to attack the enemy. Below, the status of various systems is displayed with coloured lights.


This is what a report on system status might look like. This keeps track of how much damage has been done in each region, and how many crew hands each section is short (should probably show a total as well). This player has suffered some ancillary damage to the power generator and the engines have been knocked offline with concentrated fire.


The player is able to redistribute power to his shields here. The total shield strength is displayed, as well as how much is going to each part of the ship. The player has chosen to more carefully defend the starboard (probably to avoid further power damage, leaving slightly below average shielding to the aft and completely exposing the port side. The enemy's relative position is displayed, so the player knows roughly where best to defend.

Wow … This looks amazing ! However are you sure for the first person ? A computercraft's screen is very small so fort fake 3D for the first personn this will be near impossible ….

Will it be realtime and how 3d will it be? I think if its 1st person realtime 3d with loads of complex ships flying around then the screen will just look like a mess…maybe aerial view is a better way like ftl?
All the pics look amazing though :D/>

awsumben13, on 18 February 2013 - 03:43 AM said:

Will it be realtime and how 3d will it be? I think if its 1st person realtime 3d with loads of complex ships flying around then the screen will just look like a mess…maybe aerial view is a better way like ftl?
All the pics look amazing though :D/>

bjornir90, on 18 February 2013 - 03:38 AM said:

Wow … This looks amazing ! However are you sure for the first person ? A computercraft's screen is very small so fort fake 3D for the first personn this will be near impossible ….

I agree that the 3D view will be kind of hard. I like the idea of using an aerial view (like FTL) though.

I chose first person because the aerial overhead view wouldn't really do justice to what it's like to captain a massive capital ship. It's unlikely the player will jump behind the controls and start flying the thing around in 3D space- they'll mostly be watching tactical overlays during battle, and sitting in front of the viewscreen watching space go by, occasionally answering comm messages, ordering the crew about and generally just being a captain. I chose Pirates as an example inspiration because I don't imagine this game being like most space combat games, with WWII-inspired dogfighting mechanics. You'll probably never even see your opponent, as they're too far away, just as in ship-to-ship battles on the Spanish Main it wasn't until you wanted to board your enemy that you caught much of a glint of the ship up close. I imagine it being more like… Battlestar Galactica for example, with the captain and XO in the CIC, watching the action and communicating with the crew while maneuvering the ship and launching vipers.
I've not played FTL but I think I'm going for quite a different game. Combat will be more like a game of chess from how I see it. Incidentally, those overlays probably will be 2D and overhead.

Oh and I quite liked your list GravityScore :)/> Fire me a PM or something and we'll talk about it.

When can we start? It sounds like a great game :D/> my only suggestions are having an unlimited randomly generating galaxy where there are no limits…like minecraft but the blocks are solar systems and planet colonisation where you can build walls and buildings that get you extra resources etc… :l

Wow, mind blown again, you sir are the most amazing member of this community!

This sounds and looks awesome. I have a few questions though:
- What might the ship controls be like? Type coordinates into a menu or click and drag?
- Would this be a multiplayer game?
- If singleplayer, how in-depth are you thinking the "AI" will be?

And a suggestion:
To keep in line with ComputerCraft (or just for the sheer "coolness" of it), I think that additionally to the menus there should be a console which allows you to enter the same commands that you would do with multiple GUIs otherwise. I'm faster at typing on a keyboard than clicking about an interface, and really advanced players would be able to visualize the battle in their head. Perhaps there should also be a system query lookup in the console to allow everything to be managed from it if you want.

Are you programming this by yourself or with a dev-group? If the latter, I would love to help. I wouldn't always have the time to what with school and everything, but even being a small part of the project would be awesome.

Bubba, on 18 February 2013 - 05:43 AM said:

This sounds and looks awesome. I have a few questions though:
- What might the ship controls be like? Type coordinates into a menu or click and drag?

I expect most interactions will be through a series of graphical menus. The screenshots above are all mouse driven- clicking to select a location to move to, or selecting a section of the ship to query (later to target for enemies), or to increase shield levels at different areas. Rather than all being textual I hope pictographic representations will be available, so perhaps having a small map of the hsip that can be selected to choose where to move to, rather than just selecting a textual "move" option, and moving there. I want the player to feel very much as though he is not just something hovering above a ship but is actually in it, running things from the inside.

Bubba, on 18 February 2013 - 05:43 AM said:

- Would this be a multiplayer game?

The core of the game will be single player, but I see no reason why a multiplayer shouldn't exist. Granted there will be so much ability to customize your play style, I think it would be really cool to take the hulker you've created in single player and pit it against your friends.

Bubba, on 18 February 2013 - 05:43 AM said:

- If singleplayer, how in-depth are you thinking the "AI" will be?

Rather like the player, enemies will have a lot of different hulkers available. I expect they will have a series of behaviours, ranging from defensive to aggressive that will modify their tactics in battles. I can imagine they will eventually get quite complex, but I'm not one to shrink from a challenge :)/>

I like your idea of having a console where the user can create custom queries- I've always been a fan of providing multiple interface methods to suit the user, and that fits the bill nicely. My one concern is as this will be a real-time tactical game, most console output will not be presented in real-time, so the user may find himself relying on out-of-date information if he's forgotten to check frequently enough for positions etc.

As for how this is made, I'm really not sure. History has demonstrated I'm not a good group manager. I think I submitted the topic hoping that I could get a bit of feedback from the community as to whether or not this is a game you'd all like to play (and feedback has been good, thanks everyone), and if some talented and motivated programmer did want to help out they could contact me and we could come to some sort of an arrangement. As this is a very large, technical and very challenging project I'd need to verify people who want to help out are suitable; that is
- They have some free time to meet and work on it
- They have worked on games before, or have some portfolio of projects
- They have something they can bring to the project, ideas or technical info or something.
I guess send me a message on the forums or youtube or something if you're interested.

Would you mind if I used this idea, but made it in Java, developed the concept some more, and gave you credit for the idea?

Yes I would mind! Don't suppose I can really stop you though, but I posted the idea hoping people would provide feedback and help me make it, rather than take it and do it themselves.

nitrogenfingers, on 18 February 2013 - 12:26 PM said:

Yes I would mind! Don't suppose I can really stop you though, but I posted the idea hoping people would provide feedback and help me make it, rather than take it and do it themselves.

That's a valid argument, however he offers no competition, as his is written in Java. Just my two cents.

Edit: Meh, back on topic: Good luck! I look forward to another one of your amazing programs Nitro!

nitrogenfingers, on 18 February 2013 - 11:40 AM said:

I like your idea of having a console where the user can create custom queries- I've always been a fan of providing multiple interface methods to suit the user, and that fits the bill nicely. My one concern is as this will be a real-time tactical game, most console output will not be presented in real-time, so the user may find himself relying on out-of-date information if he's forgotten to check frequently enough for positions etc.

My thought is that you could have it one of two ways:
1. A chat like system which outputs new events above the user input text box. You could filter the amount of things which are shown in the settings or through a command, or even capture only specific data with a command.

2. A split screen. One side with the console, the other side with new info on it.

I like both ideas- so much in fact I've combined them:

nitrogenfingers, on 18 February 2013 - 12:26 PM said:

Yes I would mind! Don't suppose I can really stop you though, but I posted the idea hoping people would provide feedback and help me make it, rather than take it and do it themselves.

Right. Well, I can't help, me being crap at Lua, but I will respect your wishes.

nitrogenfingers, on 18 February 2013 - 02:30 PM said:

Cool teaser pics and stuff

This is looking more awesome by the second. Can't wait :)/>

So what sort of commands should be available to users? How would that differ from the standard interface? What would the syntax be? I've proffered a sort of space-separated arguement system, to make them seem more like imperative commands but yeah I'm not sure.

Would love to hear suggestions.

nitrogenfingers, on 18 February 2013 - 03:34 PM said:

So what sort of commands should be available to users? How would that differ from the standard interface? What would the syntax be? I've proffered a sort of space-separated arguement system, to make them seem more like imperative commands but yeah I'm not sure.

Would love to hear suggestions.

Well IMO, all actions that are available through the GUI should be available through the console (maybe that would be too much work). If I were you I would keep the commands simple (e.g. "goto [location] [speed]", "repair [component] [timeframe]")
What alternative would there be to space-separated arguments? I suppose you could do Lua like commands such as goto("location", speed) but I think that space-separated would be more understandable.

Another really neat thing I can imagine being in a future version would be some simplistic scripting that could react to certain events.
Example:

onHitByMissile AND [cash]>50 AND breachIsFatal:
    repair-[location]

onAquireEnemyVessel:
    Liquidate-[vessel]

Of course that would be pretty advanced stuff right there, but as this game gets more in-depth I can certainly imagine it.

Here are a few more bits of artwork I've come up with. I said before I like the idea of the player being at the seat of one of these capital ships- not in the cramped cockpit of a fighter jet but in something a bit more comfortable. I imagine being in front of a large viewscreen with most information being projected onto there, with other people working quietly elsewhere, that may give reports to you from time to time (particularly in combat).



Here's an image of the viewscreen with a map projected on it. This allows the captain to choose a nearby destination to travel to- it reports the distance from the player, the amount of fuel it will cost to travel there and allows him to make further queries about the destination- at least of what is known.

I had a lot of trouble drawing this. I wasn't sure how to bring about "sitting in comfy armchair with computer console in front of you and people milling about" in pictographic form, so it looks kind of stupid. But the idea comes across- you're not hovering outside the ship looking at it from afar, you're in it running it from the ground with all the advantages and challenges that brings.



Choosing to get more info on a given area will pop up something like this, displaying the sector name, government, alignment and things you can visit while you're there. I've recently picked up a game "Knights of Pen and Paper",and I quite like this approach to travel and locations- each one has a few things you can do at it, and in this case there will be suns and features each area has (like places where you can fight pirates or stations you can trade at, accept missions, read the daily news, visit the pub, etc). I expect for this reason each sector will have sub-sector maps, and travel here will be similar to Pirates, in which a trajectory is set and the player flies off to the deadly asteroid field or the alien planet or whatever, with the ability to spot (and make contact with, evade, attack) other capital ships.

Edit: So I should probably draw that too…

This is insane … awesome but insane I wish you luck.

Can i suggest planet colonisation? That would be quite cool in my opinion…being able to land on a planet and make cities etc, maybe find ruins or mines where you can get resources from

The "sector" map, accessible from within any system. The user can fly the ship around to various areas of the map by choosing destinations- in empty space or a particular body like a planet. In this case the player is making his way towards a planetoid. It's not labelled on the map (as he hasn't been there yet) but we can assume it's either Knox or Mestor.



I think it's important that the player take "off" the overlays once in awhile and just look out the window, even if it's just stars. In this case, he's arrived at a planetoid so that is visible through the viewscreen.



Before the player lands they're able to find more information out about the place. It's been identified as Knox, which is a military facility with some basic facilities the player can use, like repair, supplies and trading. An outfitter provides upgrades too.

In the universe we're talking about here, Hulkers are not built for atmospheric travel, due to their enormous size and comparatively weak engines, so to land on a planet, it must have a massive facility capable of docking it safely, which of course not all will have. This one does however so the player is free to land here- otherwise they must rely on smaller vessels, such as traders in their convoy or ferries hired at a premium to ship supplies from the surface.

I would like to help. I have sent you a pm

About the 3D, I would be more worried about the speed, than about the difficult. It requires ALOT of calculations, even if it's only ray-casting(alot less than ray-tracing, though).

this sounds amazing i would love to get involved even though i probably couldnt help to much and this almost sounds like your trying to make 0x10c before notch :P/>

I would love to help with this! I'm good with rednet and http, so I could help with multiplayer. This sounds fun.

This looks epic! Wish I could help, but, yeah…

<– Noobish person

One aspect which might be neat is the ability to give instructions to the ship's computer. A simple scripting language, perhaps based on jumping to a specific event label and executing the code there (e.g., onSingleShieldFailure, onTotalShieldFailure, onDamageTaken, onHullFailure, onTick, etc.) combined with built-in variables to get information about the ship's state, could be really quite cool. The computer would be limited in what it could do (it can re-route power, but cannot attempt to repair the engines, for example). This would provide a layer of automatic response to more mundane problems.

Lyqyd, on 20 February 2013 - 04:54 AM said:

One aspect which might be neat is the ability to give instructions to the ship's computer. A simple scripting language, perhaps based on jumping to a specific event label and executing the code there (e.g., onSingleShieldFailure, onTotalShieldFailure, onDamageTaken, onHullFailure, onTick, etc.) combined with built-in variables to get information about the ship's state, could be really quite cool. The computer would be limited in what it could do (it can re-route power, but cannot attempt to repair the engines, for example). This would provide a layer of automatic response to more mundane problems.

i suggested this with a pm to nitro he said it would be hard but intresting to do

Idea: Lua sandbox for computer.
Contains:
-math
-string
-table
-term: Simulated terminal that you can see by accessing the computer system.
-fs: Limited fs, maybe only a tiny space for storing programs. Startup would run on startup
-ship: Can see and edit the ship. ship.powerDown("forcefield") ship.sendAvailablePower("guns")
-radio: Can radio to ships around them, kinda like rednet. (Multiplayer mainly)

Also, you would be able to access the content of the comp thru a folder, so you can use pastebin, ect, to code your programs.

Is it just me or is this beginning to sound a lot like 0x10c?

Race you there Notch!

nitrogenfingers, on 20 February 2013 - 01:10 PM said:

Is it just me or is this beginning to sound a lot like 0x10c?

Race you there Notch!

ETHANATOR360, on 19 February 2013 - 02:46 AM said:

this sounds amazing i would love to get involved even though i probably couldnt help to much and this almost sounds like your trying to make 0x10c before notch :P/>

yes it is, and i think we should beat him to it

So I think I'm going to make a start at implementing this.

The most logical place to start in these sorts of things is usually the environment. I'm going to start work on a script that defines the universe, which is just a container for the systems the user can travel to (placeholder names). Then I might have a go at implementing travel- the player choosing different systems and travelling between them or something. All very placeholder, just to get the ball rolling so to speak.

You should add fuel so more motor power equals more fuel consumition, and to recharge ul you must go to a station or use energy("maybe solar panels") for making it yourself(at a hight cost?)

So fuel is definitely going to be a component of the game. What I'm thinking about travel so far:

- Your jump drive will have a range, and it's going to be fairly short. To start with you may only be able to go to adjacent systems and some will be simply too far away to reach.
- Upgrades to those will increase range
- Fuel consumption will be based on travelling distance, and your engine will produce a certain mileage
- Energy efficiency will be another upgrade to the jump drive
- Most (but not all) systems will have refuelling stations, probably more commonly space stations than astronomical bodies like planets. Like commodities these will have a fluctuating price, probably dependent on how close they are to whatever fuel source this game will end up using, but they won't be traded or take up cargo space (I expect fuel storage will be done somewhere specific within the engine room). So you can't generate your own fuel, you have to buy it or find it (steal it from a hulker you've just disabled, buy it from a passing hulker at whatever premium he's prepared to charge, possibly mine it from asteriods? later down the track…)
- Conversely power will be generated rather than purchased. I think we can assume our setting is advanced enough that power generation from solar sources (or gravitational, assuming you're close enough to a body to have interaction with matter in another inertial frame of reference) has come far enough not to be too intrusive, so generation is steady. I like the idea of burning fuel in combat to generate extra power at that sacrifice, so that might appear as well.

While it is slightly annoying having to stock up with fuel it adds a tactical component. First a trading route may not be profitable due to the fuel expense, so this requires additional planning- a route on the border of Human space may have a fantastic trading pair or triplet, but their distance from fuel-producing regions of space may lead to high fuel prices and render the route not viable. It also means when travelling in enemy territory where docking will typically be refused (without bribery) you'll have to be careful of your reserves, never going so far as you can't go back again in fear of being stranded.

And even as I write this I'm thinking "my god this is massive, i'm never going to manage it all!" and so I can't promise this is how it'll turn out, it's all just blue sky right now.

I have made a bit of a scripting language template
http://pastebin.com/04WNZEGF

Just a little idea to add a bit more tactic.. Maybe make landing/leaving on a planet cost fuel too (not too much), so you really have to think about where you are going and how much fuel you have, or you'll end up stuck in space searching for other fuel sources. It also adds a bit of realism since landing and leaving planets with spaceships is obviously very fuel consuming irl :P/>

I really like that idea. Landing on planets is… a difficult task for these things- I mean they're massive, it takes a huge amount of energy to get them to escape velocity. Not sure what the ratio would be though… this will have to be tweaked.

well for earth size planets i believe its 8 miles a second (wow we need to get a google doc up)

ETHANATOR360, on 21 February 2013 - 11:15 AM said:

well for earth size planets i believe its 8 miles a second (wow we need to get a google doc up)

The acceleration of gravity on Earth is 9.8 m/s^2. And yes, a google doc is needed.

Google doc Capital Defense - https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0BwjDF2CKDteeUTB2czhCemtTZjQ/edit?usp=sharing

Everyone with link can edit and upload

Dlcruz129, on 21 February 2013 - 06:57 PM said:

ETHANATOR360, on 21 February 2013 - 11:15 AM said:

well for earth size planets i believe its 8 miles a second (wow we need to get a google doc up)

The acceleration of gravity on Earth is 9.8 m/s^2. And yes, a google doc is needed.

Of course it depends on the size of the planet, and because the hulker will have varying mass, that has to be taken account of as well- it's going to depend a lot on what is propelling the craft at the end of the day. I think in my head I had this completely unrealistic idea that ships in this game, they're not designed for atmospheric travel so you have these enormous electro-magnetic arrays that are powered by these huge generators to slow incoming craft and blasting them back, but I imagine if I did the maths the energy you'd need those magnets to run at would probably be like enough to destabilize the planets magnetosphere or something, so I dunno.
It's kind of amusing. Did you guys ever play Mass Effect, and when you're in the planet select screen you would have this little description of the planet, about it's gravity, atmospheric composition, it's history, and I think I was the only person who read those. It was kind of cool, yeah first year astrophysics, I remember Hertzsprung-Russell and general relativity and all that cool spacey stuff. So I'd probably include some of that stuff, but like I say think I'm the only one who'd pay much attention to it, so if I started saying, you want to land at this planet, it has an unusually high gravitational pull and it's going to cost extra to get off it, I think that may bug people.

superaxander, on 20 February 2013 - 08:07 PM said:

I have made a bit of a scripting language template
http://pastebin.com/04WNZEGF

I've actually got one going, I've barely touched it yet, needs to get fleshed out. I'm a bit… "protective" I guess because I'm worried about it getting overrun with someone taking it in their direction rather than the direction I'd hope it to go in, so it's restricted at the moment. If someone wants to keep detailed notes, of this post or of conversations with myself on PM or IRC or whatever, that'd be cool, but for the second I'll keep it as it is:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DssHOLgm6OEFA5eIgUO2d98xqY4WWpBcJRxp9_vWh2U/edit

Oh also, I've not been able to post to a channel for awhile because all my work with CC these days is all pretty large scale, or being posted on another channel, so it's harder to present in my old "Applications for CC" format. I had the sort of idea that I might do this as a screen-capture/podcasty style thing- got the idea watching a bit of the Mojam this afternoon and thought 'yeah maybe people would watch me programming and randomly talking about music or watching stuff come together, in like 5 minute chunks or so'.

nitrogenfingers, on 21 February 2013 - 10:20 PM said:

Dlcruz129, on 21 February 2013 - 06:57 PM said:

ETHANATOR360, on 21 February 2013 - 11:15 AM said:

well for earth size planets i believe its 8 miles a second (wow we need to get a google doc up)

The acceleration of gravity on Earth is 9.8 m/s^2. And yes, a google doc is needed.

Of course it depends on the size of the planet, and because the hulker will have varying mass, that has to be taken account of as well- it's going to depend a lot on what is propelling the craft at the end of the day. I think in my head I had this completely unrealistic idea that ships in this game, they're not designed for atmospheric travel so you have these enormous electro-magnetic arrays that are powered by these huge generators to slow incoming craft and blasting them back, but I imagine if I did the maths the energy you'd need those magnets to run at would probably be like enough to destabilize the planets magnetosphere or something, so I dunno.
It's kind of amusing. Did you guys ever play Mass Effect, and when you're in the planet select screen you would have this little description of the planet, about it's gravity, atmospheric composition, it's history, and I think I was the only person who read those. It was kind of cool, yeah first year astrophysics, I remember Hertzsprung-Russell and general relativity and all that cool spacey stuff. So I'd probably include some of that stuff, but like I say think I'm the only one who'd pay much attention to it, so if I started saying, you want to land at this planet, it has an unusually high gravitational pull and it's going to cost extra to get off it, I think that may bug people.

superaxander, on 20 February 2013 - 08:07 PM said:

I have made a bit of a scripting language template
http://pastebin.com/04WNZEGF

I've actually got one going, I've barely touched it yet, needs to get fleshed out. I'm a bit… "protective" I guess because I'm worried about it getting overrun with someone taking it in their direction rather than the direction I'd hope it to go in, so it's restricted at the moment. If someone wants to keep detailed notes, of this post or of conversations with myself on PM or IRC or whatever, that'd be cool, but for the second I'll keep it as it is:

https://docs.google....Rxp9_vWh2U/edit

i read the info windows on mass effect their fun to read as long as its filled with interesting facts

nitrogenfingers, on 21 February 2013 - 10:20 PM said:

Dlcruz129, on 21 February 2013 - 06:57 PM said:

ETHANATOR360, on 21 February 2013 - 11:15 AM said:

well for earth size planets i believe its 8 miles a second (wow we need to get a google doc up)

The acceleration of gravity on Earth is 9.8 m/s^2. And yes, a google doc is needed.

[clipped]

superaxander, on 20 February 2013 - 08:07 PM said:

I have made a bit of a scripting language template
http://pastebin.com/04WNZEGF

I've actually got one going, I've barely touched it yet, needs to get fleshed out. I'm a bit… "protective" I guess because I'm worried about it getting overrun with someone taking it in their direction rather than the direction I'd hope it to go in, so it's restricted at the moment. If someone wants to keep detailed notes, of this post or of conversations with myself on PM or IRC or whatever, that'd be cool, but for the second I'll keep it as it is:

https://docs.google....Rxp9_vWh2U/edit

Two things: One, you never cease to amaze me NF, keep it up! Two: You should set the notes to public and view only or comment only. That way we can see it to offer feedback, but only you and those you specify can actually edit it. And you can just delete a comment or comment why not then mark as resolved if you don't like/want to do something.

EDIT: Clipped large, unneeded text

Yes, that seems fair enough.

I've updated the google docs accordingly, and will begin fleshing it out today. Open the floodgates for comment leaving!

I'm starting work this evening on creating the beginnings of the universe. This means I need to start coming up with a stack of different solar systems, and I'd people to chip in with this. It's kind of fun, the process just involves making up a name for a system, something preferably appropriate to the people that inhabit or discovered it, and thinking about roughly where it might lie (I'll draw up a map in npaint and post it soon. If you have an idea for a bit of a back story to the place, include it- maybe the system has the ruins of an ancient civilization and is mostly inhabited by archaeologists, or it's part of a rich mining belt, or a colony that was recently freed. Once we've got names for systems and their locations down pat, we can think about the planets and other features that are in them.

Here are a few I have so far:

Earth core- based on real stars and star systems
- Sol (of course)
- Centauri
- Barnard
- Sirius
- Procyon
- Rigel

Earth outer- mostly based on Roman and Egyptian mythology
- Theseus
- Neptuna
- Jovius
- Iris
- Maat
- Knossos
- Carthage

The hole worlds of the other races
- Kist (Klegartha)
- Mestor (Men of Mestor)
- Cestia and Knesslos (Deston Cest- Lepols and Kness respectively)
- Joshaba (Benuin)
- New World (K-007)
- Soloman (GFID, organization rather than a race. Sovreign territory in the heart of Benuin space)

Edit: A rough map I threw together in NPP of this universe relative to everything:

Hole world:
- Foetid (foetido)
These foul smelling (hence their name) creatures are quite friendly, but for some reason they are always avoided by other life forms…
- Olecran (aegopod)
The aegopod are a shy race, but very interested in intergalactical life forms. It may turn out they know almost everything about you before you even left your planet. The aegopod were once inhabitants of Soloman (or any other planet if you want) but were attacked and forced to leave.

i have an idea what if you had 3 main categories you had to pick from and only with a certain amount of points like max armour came with the sacrifice of speed and fire power

been away, damn I wish I had seen this earlier.

this is kinda like a ridiculously complicated version of my Shipper;
I would love to help in any way possible - be it creativity or coding :D/>

also, is it going to be a set map or randomly generated?

I suggest you use a lua sandbox for scripting the ship, converting a new language to lua and the other way around is not very efficient. By doing it this way, you could also build the GUI on top of the control functions.

I'm interested in working on this project, not sure what I could do though.

ETHANATOR360, on 23 February 2013 - 08:16 AM said:

i have an idea what if you had 3 main categories you had to pick from and only with a certain amount of points like max armour came with the sacrifice of speed and fire power

So I expect that all ships would have a few base attributes:
- Weight
- Size
- No. Crew needed
- "Base" facilities- what's already been installed in the main bay

I think that things like armour enhancements, engine expansions and power room expansions should come out of your main bay allowance, so perhaps different floor models for hulker will have varying ones preinstalled- a line with low weight and more powerful engines being marked as a speedier model, or quite a large one with thick armour plating for traders etc.

billysback, on 23 February 2013 - 08:59 AM said:

been away, damn I wish I had seen this earlier.

this is kinda like a ridiculously complicated version of my Shipper;
I would love to help in any way possible - be it creativity or coding :D/>

also, is it going to be a set map or randomly generated?

Still not sure how to integrate people just yet, I'm just coding up some basic stuff right now. PM if you want to help out.

I'm expecting the map to be designed. If there's a story campaign this will be important.

Leo Verto, on 23 February 2013 - 10:50 AM said:

I suggest you use a lua sandbox for scripting the ship, converting a new language to lua and the other way around is not very efficient. By doing it this way, you could also build the GUI on top of the control functions.

I'm interested in working on this project, not sure what I could do though.

I'm not… hugely enthusiastic about having a lua sandbox for a few reasons. First players able to break out of it (I'm sure I'd leave a loophole somewhere) could very easily cheat, and the syntax and flexibility are not really appropriate for the game, at least as far as I can see. But right now I'm just trying to get it moving around performing any tasks at all- programming it, if it comes to that in detail, can come later.

Edit: Sorry, on back post that seemed a bit negative. Appreciate your suggestion guys, and I will try my hardest to incorporate them

So this is the first screenshot I have of any part of the game running.

If it doesn't look especially exciting it's because it isn't. The left green display is your current system and its coordinates, and the right displays a selected system, which you can pick with the mouse. The centre display shows the distance between these two areas, and clicking the location a second time will move you there. Highlighted in this picture is the longest jump, a 43.41pc distance between Jovius and Rigel. The shortest I think is Sol to Centauri, which is about 3pc. These distances are quite a bit off, and pc isn't really an appropriate measure of distance, so I will probably replace with ly. Distances within systems will absolutely be in AU.

From here fuel and distance limitations are trivial. A hulker can be given an engine of a given class which restricts the maximum distance he can make in any jump. A fuel cost can be assigned according to the efficiency of the hulker's engines, which would be subtracted from reserves each time the player makes a jump. An overlay could also be used to display which planets are out of travel range, and which planets are out of fuel range.

The player should also be able to make unregulated jumps by manually entering coordinates into his console. This should be difficult to do as it's discouraged- there will be a chance each time you make an unregulated jump of landing in a black hole of quasar or something, damaging or destroying your ship. It's a gamble, for the desparate.

The longest jump is 43pc, and I expect players starting out would have an effective range of 18pc, making this a 3-jump jounrey- Jovius-Procyon-Sirius-Wolf, where longer engines might allow Jovius-Sol-Wolf. Maximum range engines would probably take you as far as Sirius in one jump. Because it would be annoying to open up the sector map and make the jump each time, I like the idea of plotting a jump route- the player may do this in the console, or there may be an interface, but essentially allow them to trace a route, and then just execute a jump command each time they're ready, cutting out some legwork in longer journeys.

I also like the idea of not having the entire universe revealed to the player, but purchasing or obtaining star maps, as well as hot tips from traders. They may provide you with the specific jump coordinates to a system, or even a little tucked away rebel camp in a long dead asteroid or something, that wouldn't appear on purchased star charts but you can reach by travelling with an unregulated jump. Travelling to any set of coordinates containing a system as yet unexplored to the player should instantly show up on your star map, perhaps with different text if it's not an official location.

Some of the ideas this little demo has given me so far…

Brilliant! And on you other post you don't have to incorporate all the features we suggest I'm actually starting to look back on the whole in game scripting
Because its starting to feel like it could bog down gameplay and take your attention away from the main purpose of space exploration and battle
EDIT: do you have any plan for travel to take time?

OMG so freaking awsome!
Can't belive I haven't seen this before now!
Could I beta test this and report bugs? :3

ETHANATOR360, on 24 February 2013 - 03:59 AM said:

Brilliant! And on you other post you don't have to incorporate all the features we suggest I'm actually starting to look back on the whole in game scripting
Because its starting to feel like it could bog down gameplay and take your attention away from the main purpose of space exploration and battle
EDIT: do you have any plan for travel to take time?

off topic: i read it too fast thought it was timetraveling xD

ETHANATOR360, on 24 February 2013 - 03:59 AM said:

Brilliant! And on you other post you don't have to incorporate all the features we suggest I'm actually starting to look back on the whole in game scripting
Because its starting to feel like it could bog down gameplay and take your attention away from the main purpose of space exploration and battle
EDIT: do you have any plan for travel to take time?

Yeah I definitely want space exploration and battles and trading and stuff to be the focus, so that scripting will come in when it needs to, to facilitate game-play.
I'm not sure about taking time… I don't imagine the user sitting twiddling their thumbs for long periods of time but in-game time might pass, apply some special relativity and have each journey take a similar amount of time for the player but pass a few days in stationary (or close to)-space relative time.

Hellkid98, on 25 February 2013 - 07:51 AM said:

OMG so freaking awsome!
Can't belive I haven't seen this before now!
Could I beta test this and report bugs? :3

Yes you may! Not sure how to get this to you guys yet, thinking of biting the bullet and making this a github project. Will lead that link on soon.

Github would be awesome.
That way i could really help you.

Are you going to post the google doc on the main page and put all of the places in it? It mostly says what's already in the topic description. If you do use github, i can help with moving the gdoc and ur posts here to a wiki when i can get back to a good computer.

Another thing - will the average computer (irl computer, not cc computer) and servers be able to handle this?

I have a few suggestions regarding the FTL jump drive:

* Each jump accrues heat to the hull by some factor of distance traveled. Perhaps a 10ly jump would add 1000K to the hull temperature. The hull would be able to sustain quite a bit of heat, making long jumps not a huge problem, but the hull cool down would take some time.

* Sensitive hull components suffering heat death. Your sensors would have to be retracted (or traded out for more rugged [but perhaps somewhat limited] sensors) before a jump of sufficient length to avoid frying them all at the other end. The general idea here is, the better/longer/more sensitive a sensor is, the less heat it can take.

* High hull heat multiplies damage by a small factor. Giving a whole new meaning to coming in hot, this adds an additional reason to cool down some before engaging hostile targets, or to increase the time between jumps before entering hostile territory. Your shields would still function without any issues, but if they went down, enemy fire would do more damage to a hot hull than a cool one.

* Energy weapons (if present in the game) should cause hull heat along with any damage they cause.

* High-gravity objects in space should be pre-generated and static, not a random-encounter sort of thing. If you safely jump from one place to a set of arbitrary coordinates, that jump should always be successful.

* Jumps that pass near gravity wells should be affected by them. This is a complex suggestion, but I think it has the potential to greatly boost the strategic and planning aspects of the game. Gravity wells should curve FTL paths and potentially lengthen them, dependent on how much of the gravity well the path passes through. A slingshot sort of effect should be possible, where plotting a path with manual coordinates may give you a better route than jumping through three known systems. Here is an example:

A player wants to travel between two distant systems. He could make three jumps between known systems, expending 120 units of fuel over the 120ly jump path (and accruing 12000K of heat [yikes!]). But this player knows of a black hole relatively close to his location. He enters a set of coordinates just past the black hole (a 10ly jump) and punches it. Upon arrival, he scans the area, finds that it is safe, then drops shields to 25% power and begins dissipating heat using the extra energy. Once his ship is sufficiently cooled, he lines up a 20ly jump vector that passes near the black hole (almost dangerously close). This jump vector actually points away from his destination. The player retracts sensors, powers his shields back to full, pulls the crew away from the hull and pumps the atmosphere out of the outer corridors (his hull is going to shortly become VERY warm).

He again hits the jump activation. 5ly into his jump, he passes by the black hole. It is close enough that it curves his jump vector about 180* around its gravity well, flinging him in the direction of his destination planet. This also multiplies his jump vector's remaining length by a factor of 8, sending him 120ly away in a single jump (a scale something like 2x for a 45* shot, 4x for 90*, etc. might be fair). He arrives and begins dumping heat very slowly. He cannot use his sensors to scan the empty sector of space he's just arrived in, since they would melt if he attempted to unshroud them, so he doesn't know if it's safe to reduce shield power and divert it to cooling systems. He has accrued all of the heat of his 125ly journey (5ly prior to the slingshot and 120ly afterward), but only spent 20 units of fuel on the jump!

Once he is cooled down again, he makes a short 10ly jump into the target system. More precise calculations might find him a vector to use jumping past the black hole that would jump him straight into the target system, but he knows this route and it works. He arrives at the end of his journey having spent 40 units of fuel to travel 145ly, quite satisfied with himself. Unfortunately, there are no convenient black holes or other large gravity wells nearby, so he'll be taking the long, slow way back.

Thoughts? :)/>

Lyqyd, on 27 February 2013 - 07:43 AM said:

I have a few suggestions regarding the FTL jump drive:

* Each jump accrues heat to the hull by some factor of distance traveled. Perhaps a 10ly jump would add 1000K to the hull temperature. The hull would be able to sustain quite a bit of heat, making long jumps not a huge problem, but the hull cool down would take some time.

* Sensitive hull components suffering heat death. Your sensors would have to be retracted (or traded out for more rugged [but perhaps somewhat limited] sensors) before a jump of sufficient length to avoid frying them all at the other end. The general idea here is, the better/longer/more sensitive a sensor is, the less heat it can take.

* High hull heat multiplies damage by a small factor. Giving a whole new meaning to coming in hot, this adds an additional reason to cool down some before engaging hostile targets, or to increase the time between jumps before entering hostile territory. Your shields would still function without any issues, but if they went down, enemy fire would do more damage to a hot hull than a cool one.

* Energy weapons (if present in the game) should cause hull heat along with any damage they cause.

* High-gravity objects in space should be pre-generated and static, not a random-encounter sort of thing. If you safely jump from one place to a set of arbitrary coordinates, that jump should always be successful.

* Jumps that pass near gravity wells should be affected by them. This is a complex suggestion, but I think it has the potential to greatly boost the strategic and planning aspects of the game. Gravity wells should curve FTL paths and potentially lengthen them, dependent on how much of the gravity well the path passes through. A slingshot sort of effect should be possible, where plotting a path with manual coordinates may give you a better route than jumping through three known systems. Here is an example:

A player wants to travel between two distant systems. He could make three jumps between known systems, expending 120 units of fuel over the 120ly jump path (and accruing 12000K of heat [yikes!]). But this player knows of a black hole relatively close to his location. He enters a set of coordinates just past the black hole and punches it. Upon arrival, he scans the area, finds that it is safe, then drops shields to 25% power and begins dissipating heat using the extra energy. Once his ship is sufficiently cooled, he lines up a 20ly jump vector that passes near the black hole (almost dangerously close). This jump vector actually points away from his destination. The player retracts sensors, powers his shields back to full, pulls the crew away from the hull and pumps the atmosphere out of the outer corridors (his hull is going to shortly become VERY warm).

He again hits the jump activation. 5ly into his jump, he passes by the black hole. It is close enough that it curves his jump vector about 180* around its gravity well, flinging him in the direction of his destination planet. This also multiplies his jump vector's remaining length by a factor of 8, sending him 120ly away in a single jump (a scale something like 2x for a 45* shot, 4x for 90*, etc. might be fair). He arrives and begins dumping heat very slowly. He cannot use his sensors to scan the empty sector of space he's just arrived in, since they would melt if he attempted to unshroud them, so he doesn't know if it's safe to reduce shield power and divert it to cooling systems. He has accrued all of the heat of his 125ly journey (5ly prior to the slingshot and 120ly afterward), but only spent 20 units of fuel on the jump!

Once he is cooled down again, he makes a short 10ly jump into the target system. More precise calculations might find him a vector to use jumping past the black hole that would jump him straight into the target system, but he knows this route and it works. He arrives at the end of his journey having spent 40 units of fuel to travel 145ly, quite satisfied with himself. Unfortunately, there are no convenient black holes or other large gravity wells nearby, so he'll be taking the long, slow way back.

Thoughts? :)/>/>

You wouldn't by any chance play EVE Online do you? My roommate does, and thinks you are a super nerd for this post.

Cranium, on 27 February 2013 - 08:05 AM said:

You wouldn't by any chance play EVE Online do you? My roommate does, and thinks you are a super nerd for this post.

Nope, I've never played EVE. Are those suggestions similar to EVE gameplay, or just nerdy in general? :P/>

Just nerdy in general. But definitely something I would like to see in this game. It would be freaking awesome.

Lyqyd, that was beautiful man :)/>.

- I like the idea of heat being another asset the player has to manage. Ideas like evacuating sections of the ship add the nice tactical element of disallowing convection and thus lowering the rate of heating of the ship, but also make it impossible to transfer crew from one area to the other, or retracting sensors to take them offiline, forcing the player to fire blind or risk heat-stressing his equipment. My only worry is the player will spend too much time waiting for their ship to cool down between jumps or combat encounters, so some sort of venting system that speeds up the process but leaves the ship very vulenerable in a firefight might be a good way to combat that issue.

- I agree that massive gravitational objects, astronomical anomalies and uninhabited or undiscovered systems should remain consistently when plotting coordinates. I think the main idea behind that was to try and discourage blind jumping but then it hit me, why discourage it? The threat of not being near a fuel source is, well threat enough as it is, and I like the idea of pioneering into the middle of unknown space in search of some distant civilization or planet- it'll make the game feel much more dynamic and free, which is what a space game should feel! I expect therefore for gravity wells like black holes and quasars to appear on star charts along with other gravitational features

- So the idea of flinging your ship around a gravity well is as inspired as your almost poetic description of it, and it's not out of the realms of possibility but will require some thinking. The lazy way out would be for the player to plot a course to the black hole, using it as a relay and then plotting the second jump, the computer then judging the fuel cost and angle it needs to hit the well to produce that trajectory. This is by far the easiest to implement, I just calculate a relative distance travelled according to the the angle between both trajectories, but it's also the least exciting. More interesting is if the player has to position themselves, as you suggested, in such a way that they then plot a course such that their path to either side of the well. The computer then plots the "requested" path and the "actual" path, with the angular factor of flying past that well determined.

The trick with this is the inhereint imprecision in the current coordinate system, which are integral values. For this system to work I expect the player will want to finely tweak the trajectory- this could again be done by using a computer console command and cutting out the middle man, or being able to plot floating point trajectories- I expect they would be evaluated as integral on system arrival, if only to minimize confusion, but that could be used to more carefully specify that vector.

Thanks for your thoughts, although admittedly you've given me a lot more work to do :P/>

This topic is getting more amazing by the day

Off topic: nitro I like ur new avatar a lot :)/>

Thanks, nitrogenfingers! I'm excited to see this game come together and wish I could help code it. I just don't want to promise code and not deliver in a timely manner. :)/>

As far as the heat reduction system goes, perhaps an energy-intensive process to convert the heat into something useful (or just get rid of it altogether)? This would have to be something that would require a significant reduction in shield capacity (I mentioned in the post that the player reduced shields to 25% to free up energy), so that you can easily drop heat quickly, but it would be very unwise to do it in unsafe areas.

I was thinking that for the coordinate problem, you could have a sort of "fine tuning" submode, where after the sector coordinates are selected, the destination inside that sector could be fine-tuned. This wouldn't require you to use floats, as it would simply be another integer coordinate system internal to each sector of space. Gravity wells' centers would be at specific coordinates in these, and they could be used for all of the calculations for slingshotting, etc.

I definitely prefer the second option for plotting the "flinging" courses. I think they'll be less confusing when it comes to understanding how the final fuel cost is derived (the plot-to-well-then-plot-exit-vector method would seem to arrive at the fuel cost by magic), and if the actual course is plotted, it should still be fairly clear what sort of heat level the player can expect upon arrival.

There is an interesting possibility here with multiple slingshot maneuvers. If a player's ship had a sufficiently high heat capacity, they could theoretically make a single short jump and slingshot using one gravity well into a vector that flings them from yet another gravity well's influence, multiplying their distance yet again. This shouldn't be a horrendously awful edge case (depending on how one handles the exit vector; making it behave as a distinct jump probably simplifies things the most for the multi-jump case), but I'm not sure how easy the plotting of this effect on the screen would be. Maybe the ship's computers just can't handle such things. ;)/>

I had a similar idea for the venting system- I have the idea of having sector shields at various strengths so the user could effectively drop their protection and perform a vent in the sectors that have accurred the most radiated heat, which would also be a nice, risky way to try and keep you combat ready when firing energy intensive weapons- take the chance, drop shields behind the battery, pray no one launches a missile!

I think your solution to the coordinate problem is really sensible, and this idea of really fine control over how you jump is sounding like more and more fun :)/> in populated sectors this could influence where the captain ends up relative to the rest of the system- by doing that we then convert that to a floating point (I'm assuming systems will have sectors between 0 and 1 for consistency), which can in turn give us a real number calculation of the player's proximity to the gravity well at the nearest point in their line- that in turn can be used either in a trivial calculation as to how long they spent in the influence of that well, indeed if it can be escaped at that proximity, and by that the resultant vector out, or some more complex calculation related to the centripetal force applied- I'd have to go through my old physics textbooks to remember how to do those.

There's no reason multiple flinging shouldn't work- I think we just take the rest of the vector, bend it according to that calculation and then multiply it by some value or another… not sure what's best for this- the longer in the well, the farther the jump maybe? So programmatically multiple jumps should be a cinch. What all this talk of slingshotting around stars and black holes has made me think is pushing the ship to the far edge of an intense gravity field at faster than light speeds sounds like it's going to be one hell of a stress on the hull, and I can only imagine the severity of the field-induced nausea you'd impart on the crew!

Love the suggestions, thanks Lyqyd and all! If you are keen to lend a hand that'd be awesome, and you can trust I won't hold you to anything- this appears much more a labour of love and a fun thing to do here and there rather than a serious, deadline-heavy project.. Would love to see your take on some of this :)/>

Wow this game is amazing :D/>

I would be glad to contribute what and when I can. I'm not sure how realistic one should shoot for. On the one hand, realistic gravitic interactions would be awesome, but on the other, too much realism might push players away, especially if we start getting into orbital mechanics. I think a relatively simple set of rules that govern the interaction between your ship and nearby gravity wells, a balance between realism and fun, is probably best. You're the one who's designed successful games before, though. :-)

I am kind of tempted to poke at the programmable ship's AI bit soon, though. I have an idea for a reactive scripting system that would be really easy to integrate into the core game logic, I think.

looked great at the end of your latest video
EDIT: rewatched the video notice i think might have been a bug or crash oh well still looks great

How is it going with This project?

Lyqyd, on 28 February 2013 - 06:54 AM said:

I would be glad to contribute what and when I can. I'm not sure how realistic one should shoot for. On the one hand, realistic gravitic interactions would be awesome, but on the other, too much realism might push players away, especially if we start getting into orbital mechanics. I think a relatively simple set of rules that govern the interaction between your ship and nearby gravity wells, a balance between realism and fun, is probably best. You're the one who's designed successful games before, though. :-)

I am kind of tempted to poke at the programmable ship's AI bit soon, though. I have an idea for a reactive scripting system that would be really easy to integrate into the core game logic, I think.

Would be very happy to have you on board!

I'll try to have another update for you guys by this evening, including some of the functionality we've talked about here regarding flying around systems both internally and externally. I don't know how good my slingshotting will be but hopefully I can get it to a reasonable level. I'll post the github, updated google doc and maybe a short video this evening with these updates.

Hopefully, I can then conscript interested people into making planets or systems or narratives or missions or something.

As this is a very here and there development I thought I might track my progress with a dev diary. Here's the first one:


http://youtu.be/Sa7OB67UkBk95%

Yeah I know it's boring, not sure how to make it more exciting. Anyway, demonstrates where I've started from, and sort of where I'm going

:lol:/> :D/> :wub:/> <- how I feel about that.

Very nice! I like the *s indicating the path. I look forward to this!

Am in the process of applying gravitational pull and multiplication of distance at the moment.

One thought did occur while doing this- by adding discrete amounts to the distance left to travel it may be theoretically possible to create a literally perpetual state of motion, where the energy imparted onto the user by the gravitational field is sufficient to fling them into another gravitational field, thus producing some insane sort of orbit of perpetual motion! I don't know how easy that would be to do but I can't confirm it's impossible.

Of course it would be nothing so funny as watching your ship figure 8 around two massive black holes eternally, but would just crash the program as eventually the computer would run out of space trying to compute an infinite path.

I think I'm going to need to study more physics to get this game working… correctly.

I'd consider offering help if I get more time to spare.

nitrogenfingers, on 06 March 2013 - 05:05 PM said:

Am in the process of applying gravitational pull and multiplication of distance at the moment.

One thought did occur while doing this- by adding discrete amounts to the distance left to travel it may be theoretically possible to create a literally perpetual state of motion, where the energy imparted onto the user by the gravitational field is sufficient to fling them into another gravitational field, thus producing some insane sort of orbit of perpetual motion! I don't know how easy that would be to do but I can't confirm it's impossible.

Of course it would be nothing so funny as watching your ship figure 8 around two massive black holes eternally, but would just crash the program as eventually the computer would run out of space trying to compute an infinite path.

I think I'm going to need to study more physics to get this game working… correctly.

I wouldn't think you'd have to calculate the whole path–just up until the hull would fail due to excessive jump-induced heat.

Calculating the strength of a gravitational field, at any given distance from an origin, with a given mass

F = ma (Newton's 2nd)
F is proportional to 1/r^2, r being the distance from the centre of the field (lim r->0 = +inf, doesn't make much sense with, say a pencil, but it works nicely with a black hole)
F = G(m1m2/r^2) (Newton's Universal Gravity), but as m1 is negligable, we adapt with:
ma = G(m1m2/r^2) -> a = G (m2/r^2)-> The acceleration towards the gravitational field

So for a ship going at any velocity V that passes close enough to one of these fields, we can determine it's new velocity vector really easily:
We create our gravity vector gA pointing from the hulker to the centre of the field, then multiply by a
Our existing vector v0, magnitude and velocity of our hulker's movement for any time step t=1, we'll assume,
v = v0 + gA
We then add v as our new step in place of v0, and use it for subsequent applications, and with some very nasty shortcuts you're vaguely imitating centripetal acceleration.

The main trick will be coming up with a suitable gravitational constant, and finding an appropriate ratio for a negligible cutoff for gravitational forces. Floating point errors are irritating enough with black holes 200ly away imparting a 0.000001N force on the player.

nitrogenfingers, on 06 March 2013 - 08:13 PM said:

Calculating the strength of a gravitational field, at any given distance from an origin, with a given mass

F = ma (Newton's 2nd)
F is proportional to 1/r^2, r being the distance from the centre of the field (lim r->0 = +inf, doesn't make much sense with, say a pencil, but it works nicely with a black hole)
F = G(m1m2/r^2) (Newton's Universal Gravity), but as m1 is negligable, we adapt with:
ma = G(m1m2/r^2) -> a = G (m2/r^2)-> The acceleration towards the gravitational field

So for a ship going at any velocity V that passes close enough to one of these fields, we can determine it's new velocity vector really easily:
We create our gravity vector gA pointing from the hulker to the centre of the field, then multiply by a
Our existing vector v0, magnitude and velocity of our hulker's movement for any time step t=1, we'll assume,
v = v0 + gA
We then add v as our new step in place of v0, and use it for subsequent applications, and with some very nasty shortcuts you're vaguely imitating centripetal acceleration.

The main trick will be coming up with a suitable gravitational constant, and finding an appropriate ratio for a negligible cutoff for gravitational forces. Floating point errors are irritating enough with black holes 200ly away imparting a 0.000001N force on the player.

o_O
The few parts that make sense look amazing, though!

That's so…mathematical…I love it!

You could then have the 'navigation computer' provide an error, saying it does not have the ability to calculate the path, due to 'gravitational anomalies'.

nitrogenfingers, on 06 March 2013 - 08:13 PM said:

F = ma (Newton's 2nd)
F is proportional to 1/r^2, r being the distance from the centre of the field (lim r->0 = +inf, doesn't make much sense with, say a pencil, but it works nicely with a black hole)
F = G(m1m2/r^2) (Newton's Universal Gravity), but as m1 is negligable, we adapt with:
ma = G(m1m2/r^2) -> a = G (m2/r^2)-> The acceleration towards the gravitational field

In future, I'm blaming newton for people giving variables bad names lol
Scientists should at least comment their equations instead of assuming people know what the letters stand for.
Like so:

local pi = 3.141592654
local r --radius of a given circle
local area = pi * (r*r) -- area of a circle is equal to pi * r squared
local circ = pi * (r*2) -- the circumference of a circle is pi multiplied by the diameter of the circle; the diameter is twice the length of the radius

Scientists and mathematicians could learn something from programmers - comment your formulae!

This makes me wish I had taken Physics… Oh well, Chem 2 FTW!

Cranium, on 07 March 2013 - 04:18 AM said:

That's so…mathematical…I love it!

You could then have the 'navigation computer' provide an error, saying it does not have the ability to calculate the path, due to 'gravitational anomalies'.

No don't do that just make that a warning!

What about white holes that repel the ship and if you could have a ship upgrade that allows you to travel through a black hole and out a white hole

ETHANATOR360, on 07 March 2013 - 10:52 AM said:

What about white holes that repel the ship and if you could have a ship upgrade that allows you to travel through a black hole and out a white hole

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Lyqyd, on 07 March 2013 - 11:02 AM said:

ETHANATOR360, on 07 March 2013 - 10:52 AM said:

What about white holes that repel the ship and if you could have a ship upgrade that allows you to travel through a black hole and out a white hole

That makes no sense whatsoever.

is it the fact that a black hole is actually solid mass not a hole or the fact that white holes are a complete theory?

Cranium, on 07 March 2013 - 04:18 AM said:

That's so…mathematical…I love it!

You could then have the 'navigation computer' provide an error, saying it does not have the ability to calculate the path, due to 'gravitational anomalies'.

Cheers :)/> Granted I'm calculating it anyway, I intend for the nav computer to account for grav fields and alter trajectory accordingly. That way the player can use them to their advantage, if they're so inclined.

ETHANATOR360, on 07 March 2013 - 10:52 AM said:

What about white holes that repel the ship and if you could have a ship upgrade that allows you to travel through a black hole and out a white hole

Are white holes real? They sound extremely hypothetical. I think black holes are so named because at certain proximities they attract light, rather than being actual tears in space-time as is so popularized by science fiction. This game doesn't have to be a slave to real science of course (my dodgy maths above is evidence of that). However I'm not sure how I feel about being able to use anomalies like wormholes to travel such massive distances- for one it confuses the universe I'm making, where segregation between empires is quite large, but also the player will usually work within one region rather than having lots of broad-sweeping missions and trading routes- it's unlikely a human colony will be concerned with the affairs of a Lepol planet 300ly away, for example. Still, never know. Will think about this down the track

Can't wait to Beta test =D
And all I can say so far is: Wow! You really are a genius Nitro

nitrogenfingers, on 07 March 2013 - 02:06 PM said:

ETHANATOR360, on 07 March 2013 - 10:52 AM said:

What about white holes that repel the ship and if you could have a ship upgrade that allows you to travel through a black hole and out a white hole

Are white holes real? They sound extremely hypothetical. I think black holes are so named because at certain proximities they attract light, rather than being actual tears in space-time as is so popularized by science fiction. This game doesn't have to be a slave to real science of course (my dodgy maths above is evidence of that). However I'm not sure how I feel about being able to use anomalies like wormholes to travel such massive distances- for one it confuses the universe I'm making, where segregation between empires is quite large, but also the player will usually work within one region rather than having lots of broad-sweeping missions and trading routes- it's unlikely a human colony will be concerned with the affairs of a Lepol planet 300ly away, for example. Still, never know. Will think about this down the track

white holes are theory but I've watched a show about black holes and it mentioned white holes posibly being the Big Bang

Hey
I have made some sugestions:

Indication Led:

Spoiler

I thought about the scripting last night. I think I have a good idea: An inditcation LED. Basicly you can do:

setIndicator(false)
--Wich will make it red
setIndicator(true)
--Wich will make it green

This could really come in hand when you want to say like. When attacked turn the indicator red so you can easily and fast see something went wrong. Or good of course ;)/>
I created some screenies featuring a indication LED:
Red One:
http://puu.sh/2eNiE
Green One:
http://puu.sh/2eNhd

Program Store:

Spoiler

This idea could come in hand for people who are not that good in programming but still want the advantages. Basicly you can buy programs other people made for their ships. You will have to spend some ingame money(or any currency for that matter). People who love to program can sell their programs and in that way receive even more money.
This would go trough http(I can do all the PHP needed btw. ;)/>). I know ways to make it secure aswell.

Live Map(sorta):

Spoiler

I was thinking of daily updates(or weekly or maybe even monthly) to make the game more interesting cause it will not be possible to make walkthroughs. It also keeps people from getting bored cause there aren't any stars or planets to discover.

O M G
Nitrogenfingers + Gravityscore?

This is gona be the best game ever!!!!

It would be amazing if you could implement rednet multiplayer support, where 2 fleets battle it out.

Has there been any extra progress here?

Thank you for keeping interest superaxander, but I'm afraid I've been very busy with other things- I took a weekend to polish off another CC project and I'm not going to be available at all in the next fortnight. However, I know you're interested in working on this so if you like I can delegate some things to work on in my absence, to be incorporated into the full project later. Again, thank you for your interest.

Thank you for replying :)/>

Will this game be turn-based, or in realtime?


-EDIT-
This is reminding me of parts of the Halo books =P
…. Which gives me an idea: Slipspace.

Note: I won't be able to help with coding, but I certainly have alot of retarded ideas to give.

Do you have something to do for me. I like this project and I am bored ;)/>

I'd like to help you.

IPIPP, on 06 April 2013 - 09:55 PM said:

I'd like to help you.

I love your sig. =)

I know this is old but I think this should be revived because it's awesome.

I found a api(not really api but the best I had in mind) I made a while ago for this and I thought I'd share it.
It's a trading api for capital defense.

Download:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pi026148abiotls/trade

Oh forgot to make it public haha!

Edit: I should probably have edited that in my previous post oh well

I'd love to help with this.

Ah I haven't looked at this in awhile…

I agree- it was awesome and I should keep going with it.

However, in the interest of not proliferating the practice of necromancy, I'm going to allow this post to sink back into nothingness for a bit (I'd ask mods don't lock it in case I wish to post to it later), until I have something specific to actually show. If you're interested in helping me, a PM would be appreciated.

I'll get back to work on this. Thanks for the revival, the reminder, and astonishingly the continued interest :)/>