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Viv - the next great disruptor?

Started by Dog, 30 April 2015 - 02:57 PM
Dog #1
Posted 30 April 2015 - 04:57 PM
This is one of the most mind-blowing things I've read in awhile. It's not a short article, but it's definitely worth the read.

If the developers are right, it's only about a year away…

http://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/a34630/viv-artificial-intelligence-0515/

Thoughts?
DannySMc #2
Posted 30 April 2015 - 05:23 PM
This is the future!
Dog #3
Posted 30 April 2015 - 05:27 PM
No doubt! Definitely not something I was expecting in the present. Could this be the beginning of the "end of work"?
Creator #4
Posted 30 April 2015 - 06:02 PM
End of work? Like we do no more, the machines do…
Dog #5
Posted 30 April 2015 - 06:10 PM
End of work? Like we do no more, the machines do…
Yep, exactly.
Creator #6
Posted 30 April 2015 - 06:12 PM
Oh, shoot, I wanted to feel useful
Dog #7
Posted 30 April 2015 - 06:17 PM
Hahaha - I know what you mean :)/>
DannySMc #8
Posted 30 April 2015 - 06:41 PM
Hahaha - I know what you mean :)/>

You would, you'd make the machines to do everything ;)/> Imagine, memory cards with learning programs to teach them new things!
Dog #9
Posted 30 April 2015 - 06:57 PM
We'll definitely have to re-think how a lot of things 'work'. Economies will change, 'work' will be very different than it is now.
Creator #10
Posted 30 April 2015 - 07:37 PM
Imagine lying somewhere all day long and not doing anything. That fun?
Dog #11
Posted 30 April 2015 - 08:07 PM
Well, if you choose to lie around and do nothing when there's plenty to do that doesn't involve work, that's your choice. :P/> There's plenty to do in life, and it doesn't all have to be work :)/>

Having said that, we'll still need robotics experts (until the robots can diagnose and fix themselves) among other things, so there will still be opportunities for the motivated.
Edited on 30 April 2015 - 06:09 PM
Creator #12
Posted 30 April 2015 - 11:06 PM
Wow, man, you took that seriously. Of course I am gonna do something in this distant future: be dead, because that ain't happening soon.
Dog #13
Posted 30 April 2015 - 11:17 PM
With projects like Viv I think it'll be here sooner than most people realize. Viv is just the tip of what is probably a very big iceberg :)/> I'm excited to see what will actually reach fruition in my lifetime; it's an exciting time for AI, robotics, and materials technology.
Edited on 30 April 2015 - 09:18 PM
Geforce Fan #14
Posted 01 May 2015 - 01:24 AM
This is incredibly saddening, a mockery of our privacy, and not new.
Google has been spying on you for quite a while (if you're unlike me and actually use it). And the NSA spies on you no matter what, probably as well as some other top-secret government organizations.
I don't know why people see these as good. I agree they're revolutionary, but not for anything good.
Bomb Bloke #15
Posted 01 May 2015 - 02:34 AM
My cynical chip is sparking.

On a glance, the article is about a group of guys who've made technological projects in the past that've been bought by big players, and they're trying to repeat that process - make something interesting, then get it at least far enough along that it'll be purchased by someone who doesn't want to end up competing against it.

And at its core? Viv isn't a "think-for-itself" AI so much as it's yet another advertising platform.

But won't Priceline pay Viv to get higher in Viv's rankings?

"We'll learn from the way that Google has done it," Cheyer says. "We'll have, um, organic results."

That's a non-answer, which I choose to translate as "We sure hope so!".

I had difficulty reading past the point where the article started to go off into wonderland:

Why do you need a fancy phone if you can talk to your refrigerator? How much are you going to spend on an expensive computer when your alarm clock can do your shopping?

Because I can't fit my fridge in my pocket, and no alarm clock will be able to run this sort of software without an expensive processor doing the work anyway. Duh.

I suppose what they were trying to get across is the age-old idea that one day, everything will be a terminal device, and all the actual processing will be done by remote servers. Which guys like me are fine with, so long as we own the servers (and indeed, media centers in the home aren't all that uncommon, these days). Again, this isn't a new concept, we've been moving towards it - slowly - for over a decade now. "Cloud based computer" is the current label being slapped on it. Who knows what we'll call it next year.

Whether it was the Viv team's failure to get across their points to the article writer, or whether it was the article writer's failure to articulate their own thoughts, I dunno; but that sort of rubbish in there makes me question the credibility of the whole article.

You know what does have the potential to change society, in a big way? 3D printing, when it gets to the point where it can reproduce microprocessors, and if that technology makes its way into the general public's hands.

Imagine if, instead of going out and buying a new computer, you fed a packet of silicon and metal into your own personal replicator and it spat out the latest processor. You crack the screen on your phone, and feed the whole thing in and have it printed out anew - perhaps using a design that places the power button somewhere easier to reach this time. A priceless antique gets shattered - no worries, you'd scanned in the design earlier, you just print out the backup, complete with all its original flaws.

Of course, you can imagine a whole lot hinges on who controls what gets printed. There's a huge difference between "a 3D printer in every house, and people can feed in their own designs" and "a 3D printer in every house, but they'll only print what they download from company A's servers, if the files are signed correctly due to their contents being licensed from companies B, C and D, who each happen to also incorporate advertising from companies E, F, G, H, etc etc etc".

Even the "golden age" that'd come from the first scenario wouldn't lead to "the end of work". Resource acquisition would still be as important as it is today, for example. This leads on to the point that countries which lack essential materials - who currently function by providing cheap labour to those countries who are lucky enough to have them - would need to rethink their economies entirely. It's… hard to imagine all the ramifications.

Anyway.

This Viv thing, at its best, will serve to be another way to profit off people while telling them it's in their best interests. More likely we won't ever hear of it again (at least, under this name); it'll likely be swallowed up into Siri / Google Now / Cortana, assuming it ever goes anywhere at all. The most it can hope for is to change how advertising models work, but let's face it, even that's not very likely to happen.
nitrogenfingers #16
Posted 01 May 2015 - 05:45 AM
I agree with BombBloke on this one; it looks like extremely interesting and promising work but the degree of focus the article has on commercialization (along with a lack of any current backing from larger tech companies) makes this one look like a prime candidate for a buyout that'll indelibly change the final product. It's impossible to say how far along the tech is but I doubt any large search engine provider wants to compete with a service that relegates search engines to middleware. We'll see this make a few headlines then see it get rolled into something else from the looks of it.

I love the idea though; the first AI lecture we took my supervisor said the ultimate goal of most AI research is to put us out of work; programs that write programs is the golden fleece, and the developers definitely have the pedigree. SRI is an excellent institute.

There's also a lot of apocalyptic discussion of the internet changing in unforseeable ways, the rise of ubiquitous and embedded computing, the singularity and all that, very fascinating and very complex dicussions. Programs designing programs is an important, symbolic step in the direction towards that future. But when you hear expressions like 'the magic of the cloud' and 'creating a DNA' in these sorts of discussions you have to take a step back and remember science journalism is one discipline that, depressingly, isn't evolving.

Spoiler
Dog #17
Posted 01 May 2015 - 05:54 PM
Wow, good stuff. My apologies in advance if I don't address everything brought up.

I disagree with Geforce Fan - according to the devs your information will be yours and yours only. Viv is going to be sold to companies for money and then integrated into those companies' products - so long as the devs keep their word and don't turn to our personal information as a secondary revenue stream then there's no mockery of privacy here. If, otoh, they do 'sell out' and start selling our info, then, Geforce Fan, you're 101% right. If they sell the entire thing to another company then I have little doubt that 'my stuff' won't really be 'mine' - and, again, Geforce Fan would be right. But, as it's presented now, I don't see the mockery of privacy you're concerned about. I guess we'll have to wait and see what this becomes.

Bomb Bloke - wow, where do I start? First things first - "We'll have, um, organic results…" Yeah, that was a real turn off and indicates to me that they haven't thought this whole thing through yet. I imagine Cheyer is kicking himself for that answer.

While Viv (if released as 'promised') will definitely change marketing, I don't see how Viv itself is a marketing platform. I guess it's a form of indirect marketing in that companies are jockying to be recognized on the back end, but I didn't see anything that indicated this would be used as a platform to market goods (blame my limited imagination). I'd love it if you'd expand on that just a little, even if it's just conjecture.

As for the alarm clock example: I got the impression that they are envisioning a terminal/server configuration. That still doesn't mean I'm going to give up my smartphone. In any event, they did say they were working on at least an iOS interface so it sounds like they are going to integrate smart phones into the system as opposed to trying to replace them. That's another part of this that excites me - the ability to take care of things (or really, ask Viv to take care of things) while I'm out walking the dog or running other errands.

Whether we would own the servers or not was left unmentioned. I'm fine with it either way. If I'm going to be 'connected' to my home from afar, I'm not sure I want to deal with the issues of trying to protect my 'home server' from outside attack, so having my home be a dumb-terminal to a remote central server isn't an unattractive concept to me. The downside being that a single home is less likely to be a target than a central server system.

I agree that 3D printing is another area that will probably be a major disruptor…eventually. Actually I think the only thing holding it back from being more of a disruptor at present is cost.

And with that I'm out of time for the moment. My apologies for the curtness and vagueness of some of my answers. I'll edit this post (or reply if there are other posts) later today.
Geforce Fan #18
Posted 02 May 2015 - 04:39 PM
Wow, good stuff. My apologies in advance if I don't address everything brought up.

I disagree with Geforce Fan - according to the devs your information will be yours and yours only. Viv is going to be sold to companies for money and then integrated into those companies' products - so long as the devs keep their word and don't turn to our personal information as a secondary revenue stream then there's no mockery of privacy here. If, otoh, they do 'sell out' and start selling our info, then, Geforce Fan, you're 101% right. If they sell the entire thing to another company then I have little doubt that 'my stuff' won't really be 'mine' - and, again, Geforce Fan would be right. But, as it's presented now, I don't see the mockery of privacy you're concerned about. I guess we'll have to wait and see what this becomes.

Bomb Bloke - wow, where do I start? First things first - "We'll have, um, organic results…" Yeah, that was a real turn off and indicates to me that they haven't thought this whole thing through yet. I imagine Cheyer is kicking himself for that answer.

While Viv (if released as 'promised') will definitely change marketing, I don't see how Viv itself is a marketing platform. I guess it's a form of indirect marketing in that companies are jockying to be recognized on the back end, but I didn't see anything that indicated this would be used as a platform to market goods (blame my limited imagination). I'd love it if you'd expand on that just a little, even if it's just conjecture.

As for the alarm clock example: I got the impression that they are envisioning a terminal/server configuration. That still doesn't mean I'm going to give up my smartphone. In any event, they did say they were working on at least an iOS interface so it sounds like they are going to integrate smart phones into the system as opposed to trying to replace them. That's another part of this that excites me - the ability to take care of things (or really, ask Viv to take care of things) while I'm out walking the dog or running other errands.

Whether we would own the servers or not was left unmentioned. I'm fine with it either way. If I'm going to be 'connected' to my home from afar, I'm not sure I want to deal with the issues of trying to protect my 'home server' from outside attack, so having my home be a dumb-terminal to a remote central server isn't an unattractive concept to me. The downside being that a single home is less likely to be a target than a central server system.

I agree that 3D printing is another area that will probably be a major disruptor…eventually. Actually I think the only thing holding it back from being more of a disruptor at present is cost.

And with that I'm out of time for the moment. My apologies for the curtness and vagueness of some of my answers. I'll edit this post (or reply if there are other posts) later today.
I don't want them collecting my information at all. See, the incredably sensative information being stored on some uknown remote location getting out isn't a problem if it's not there in the first place.
All they're going to use this information for is something you probably don't want.
Dog #19
Posted 02 May 2015 - 09:38 PM
I agree with BombBloke on this one; it looks like extremely interesting and promising work but the degree of focus the article has on commercialization (along with a lack of any current backing from larger tech companies) makes this one look like a prime candidate for a buyout that'll indelibly change the final product. It's impossible to say how far along the tech is but I doubt any large search engine provider wants to compete with a service that relegates search engines to middleware. We'll see this make a few headlines then see it get rolled into something else from the looks of it.
That does seem like a probable outcome, but I got the distinct impression from the article that these guys aren't interested in selling Viv. I guess it depends at least somewhat on who their investors are and how much risk they're willing to bear…and whether manufacturers see the value of including this technology in their products.

I love the idea though; the first AI lecture we took my supervisor said the ultimate goal of most AI research is to put us out of work; programs that write programs is the golden fleece, and the developers definitely have the pedigree. SRI is an excellent institute.


There's also a lot of apocalyptic discussion of the internet changing in unforseeable ways, the rise of ubiquitous and embedded computing, the singularity and all that, very fascinating and very complex dicussions. Programs designing programs is an important, symbolic step in the direction towards that future. But when you hear expressions like 'the magic of the cloud' and 'creating a DNA' in these sorts of discussions you have to take a step back and remember science journalism is one discipline that, depressingly, isn't evolving.
Agreed.

I don't want them collecting my information at all. See, the incredably sensative information being stored on some uknown remote location getting out isn't a problem if it's not there in the first place.
All they're going to use this information for is something you probably don't want.
Interesting link - thanks :)/> Although I was aware of Google's chicanery that puts into perspective nicely.

On the subject of data collection; I'm sure you're already aware, it goes well beyond Google and online sites. I have little doubt that a good portion of businesses nowadays collect what they can about us or they partner with someone who does.

Based on what was stated in the article, though, I don't see them 'using' the information for anything other than training Viv - if that were to change then my interest would wane accordingly. As for data security, that's definitely a risk, and the data would likely be stored in a centralized target - but is that significantly different than other large institutions? The risk is everywhere…I guess it just depends on which risks you're willing to take in life.

I'm pretty sure I missed some things…apologies. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this - I've gained insights I didn't have before :)/>
Geforce Fan #20
Posted 03 May 2015 - 05:11 PM
-snip-
You can get plugins like Blur that will remove the tracker's Javascript from the site, so that it will not send your personal information. This is not an end-all solution, as they can still track anything you send back to the server(ex. requests for webpages)
The closest to an end-all solution is Tor, which will automatically route your traffic through a proxy(that is probably owned by the NSA -_-/>. Still, it prevents corporations from knowing.).
Edited on 03 May 2015 - 03:13 PM
Dog #21
Posted 03 May 2015 - 06:27 PM
I wasn't aware of Blur - checking it out now - thanks for that :)/>