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Windows 10 venting

Started by LDDestroier, 27 March 2016 - 11:55 PM
LDDestroier #1
Posted 28 March 2016 - 01:55 AM
Let me just get this straight: I hate Microsoft, and Windows 10 by extention. I tried it out on my PC from Windows 7, and discovered over a few days that it plain sucks. Promptly, I installed Classic Shell, which should've been a warning when the standard menu is so bad I had to immediately get a third-party one. After about one or two months, I got sick of using Win10, and wanted to revert. But alas, so says all articles on the internet on the subject, you only have a one month downgrade window for this, and Windows wasn't even courteous enough to TELL ME THAT BEFORE ONE MONTH (well, at all, really)

Might as well make a list:
  • Windows 10's UI (window decorations, applications) is ugly and stupid and reminds me of Win8.
  • The standard start menu has advertisements. In the most basic part of the core operating system.
  • For many people (again, not me, as I willfully and knowingly upgraded,) Windows will upgrade autonomously, without user input or permission. Coupled with the problem above, it makes me want to send my fist through Nadella's skull.
  • On top of the advertisements in the start menu, opening it is noticeably more delayed, and is just horrible in its design. Tiles and a menu looks and feels stupid, and with just the menu, all your apps are organized alphabetically, and presented linearly. This makes searching, which should be a FALLBACK to good menu design, completely non-optional. Sorta like Unity, but I kind of like
  • Microsoft's wondrous privacy concerns.
  • Windows 10 broke the MBR, again. I duel-boot Ubuntu with Windows.
  • The multiple desktop feature even worse than in Gnome 3. Even Gnome 3 allowed for dynamic desktop creation, but both were linearly created, unlike Unity 7 (or hell, MATE, KDE, Gnome 2…)
Sorry, I had to do this because I'm still (evidently) pissed that Win10 did not inform me that I could downgrade, ever. I feel defeated.


EDIT: Removed one irrelevent point, proofread a little, and wanted to remind anyone who looks just at the OP that I am no longer as vitriolic about Windows 10. Only a little.
Edited on 31 January 2018 - 10:08 PM
FUNCTION MAN! #2
Posted 28 March 2016 - 02:43 AM
  • Windows 10 broke the MBR, again. I duel-boot Ubuntu with Windows.

I was going to point out how you misspelt dual, but in this case, that might be the proper spelling..

In other words: Yes, yes, let the hate flow through you. Come to the dark side.
H4X0RZ #3
Posted 28 March 2016 - 02:48 AM
I have a Zorin OS 11(don't hate on me for not using Arch. I just hate to collect every piece of software to get my pc to work.)/Windows 10 dual boot myself and i can only partially agree. Yes, the new start menu sucks. But I would never go back to windows 7 with that (IMO) ugly aero theme (I upgraded after using windows 8.1 for over a year). I only use a handful of programs. This allows me to use rainmeter to get quick access to all of them. When I need to run a program I don't have on my desktop I exactly know what it is. I press the windows key and search it. This usually takes like 2 seconds maximum so it's not really a disadvantage.
Edited on 28 March 2016 - 12:59 AM
Bomb Bloke #4
Posted 28 March 2016 - 03:00 AM
Obviously you can still downgrade - just, you know. The long way.

In any case, I'm not really a fan of 10 myself.

There's a saying, "if you're not paying for the product, you are the product". It's fairly obvious how this works in relation to Windows 10 - they're not charging users, but they're obviously pushing as hard as they can to get as many users onto it as possible, so they're obviously selling something to someone.

And indeed, they're pushing. For example, despite promises that it'd never happen, about a fortnight ago 10 was pushed as a "recommended update" (that is to say, "installed automatically under default Windows Update settings") for older OS releases. You might think that the EULA would put the brakes on this, but no, it was rigged to install first, then show the EULA, and if the user didn't accept, it'd attempt a rollback. With varying degrees of success depending on the system in concern. Fun times!

All this business about "get your free upgrade before the cut-off date!" looks like baloney to me. I believe there will be no "cut-off date". Instead, in a gesture of "generosity", Microsoft will decide to extend the "free" period "indefinitely". For now, it's purely another method of encouraging people to upgrade, and to do it sooner rather than later.

See, if MS slaps a price tag on 10, then they'll have to cut out all these underhanded tactics they're using to get people to upgrade to it. They're taking a "better to ask forgiveness than permission" attitude right now, and that's dangerous enough as things stand, but it won't work at all if people's wallets are involved.

Speaking of which, people DID have to pay for the older OS releases. Support for Windows 7, for eg, is promised through to 2019. Microsoft presumably wants to cut the related support crews down sooner rather than later - they've already made whatever money they're going to from 7 sales, and every user who sticks with it is only going to potentially cost them at this point. 7 doesn't have the store, the login ads, and so on.

Policies aside, the OS itself; I have three main gripes:
  • Backwards compatibility. Don't get me wrong, Microsoft puts a lot of work into this - absolutely puts Apple to shame, for one thing - but it's never perfect. If there isn't any software you want to run that "needs" 10 then you only stand to lose functionality by upgrading.
  • Windows Explorer. It still has the network thumbs.db bugs introduced back in 7 (or was it Vista?). It also seems to be incapable of automatically refreshing file listings; even on fresh installations I'm constantly having to mash F5 after deleting or moving files around. It still hasn't brought the info panes back up to the standards set by XP.
  • Updates. This is the big one, which may well prevent me from ever accepting the new OS - a lesson most anyone who's ever had driver issues learned a long time ago is "never, ever let Windows Update touch your drivers unless you're already having trouble with them". 10 does it without asking, and the only way to stop it is to kill the update service entirely. There's no compromise.
I can see the "logic" behind that last point - if everyone's running the latest software, then a whole lot of technical support issues should get wiped out. The average user never installs optional updates, and if given a choice, will promptly hit the "stop bothering me" button and get back to what they want their computer to be doing. You either force updates down people's throat or they don't get done at all. Give users an option to switch to something less aggressive and they'll take it at the first opportunity and never look back.

The ends don't justify the means, however, not in my eyes.

For one thing - I simply don't trust Windows Update to get the right drivers. I recent years, I've come across multiple systems which have the wrong drivers, and Windows will actually attempt to block you from installing the correct ones - because the system manufacturers are recommending older drivers than the component manufacturers.

This can even lead to Windows performing automatic rollbacks on manual driver installs. A great example of this occurred when one of NVidia's driver update tools automatically installed a new driver on a whole heap of systems, and 10 decided they should be using a different version. Cue an infinite loop of the two updaters switching the driver over and over, while in the meantime the computers sat there like bricks.

And what happens if a recent update comes with an actual show-stopping bug? The usual answer is "don't install new updates you don't need for at least a month, let other users try them first, then go ahead if all's well". The cutting edge is the bleeding edge, after all - let the willing serve the role of "beta tester".

Under 10, everyone's the beta tester. If a new driver causes problems, you have to let the wretched thing install anyway, then if your system's still functional then you can tell Windows to uninstall it and not to do it again.

Anyway, I suppose it's only fair that I do feel that the general desktop has been improving somewhat with each new release of Windows. The old Start menu, quite frankly, didn't work - the average user slowly built up a collection of folders which eventually covered the entire screen, same as 8's tiles do, and the only real answer was to either stick shortcuts on the desktop, or on the quick launch bar (and most users didn't really know how to do either). You can customise the menu layout, but cutting down on folders means more icons per folder, and Windows crawls when loading icons. You lose either way.

Mind you, whenever I do use a version with a conventional Start menu, I find myself modding it back to as close to 95's as I can get it. XP would be my favourite release, but I dislike its default interface intensely.

But the tiles interface isn't so bad, mainly because it does a pretty good job of showing you what you use, hiding what you don't, and making it easy to search for anything you want that isn't immediately visible.

That said, I do tend to find myself simply using Explorer to hunt down executables directly these days… Especially in regards to Minecraft. I've got so many builds that it's just not worth the time to set up shortcuts to them all.
Lupus590 #5
Posted 28 March 2016 - 01:08 PM
I've found W10 a lot better than the W8 that I upgraded from, I also upgraded my old W7 laptop (which I managed to break the W7 install on but still have as W10 is on another partition).

Yes W10 is not perfect, but I've not had too many problems with it. Windows update hasn't irritated me as much as I thought it would, I did have to validate every game in my steam library, but I'm guessing that I would have to had done that for any OS change.

Most problems that I've had with the W10 I've been able to fix with registry edits, most of them through programs like: personalization panel, ultimate windows tweaker, win aero tweaker, and classic shell (although I don't use the start menu, I installed it late and got used to the tiles). I even recreated most of Bash from several different projects, I've posted about this already: http://www.computerc...p?/topic/25661-

I would still like to use Linux, and have been meaning to convert may old laptop (the one with the broken W7) into a server of some kind. I still need to finish installing arch onto one of the many VMs I have. Maybe I should just use Fedora (I have used this in Uni and have a VM for it already).

I think I still have some minor gripes with W10, but I can't recall the at the moment. I will edit this if I remember them.

Edit:
My Minor Gripes:
  • I would like more control over my OS (all Windows had this problem, but W10 has made it worse)
  • The Settings app is robbing the Control Panel, guess which one I try to use when I can…
Edited on 29 March 2016 - 06:25 PM
LoganDark #6
Posted 28 March 2016 - 08:05 PM
Ugh. I can't stop thinking about you swearing in a post.

Also, I hate Windows 10, 8, 8.1… Windows 7 is my m8 if I can ever get it again.

I got a Mac because I hated Windows 8 and 10 so much, I had to get away from it. And because my PC has UEFI instead of BIOS. Mac OS X El Capitan isn't as bad as you think once you get used to it.
LDDestroier #7
Posted 29 March 2016 - 01:24 PM
I lost my entire reply (all finished and everything) because my browser went back two pages for no reason. Take two.

FUNCTION MAN!
SpoilerI will gladly accept any cookies the dark side has to offer.

H4X0RZ
SpoilerCool, I tried Zorin OS since it was at version 7 and it's pretty cool all in all. I've never even tried Arch, because Ubuntu (and its derivatives) have always played nice.
And how dare you sir, the Windows 7 aero theme is devilishly handsome.

Bomb Bloke
SpoilerI had a lot to reply to your post with, but the page backed out twice, because it's smart.

A lot of the stuff you say coincides with what I found on articles and just using the thing. I actually forgot to mention the forced updates, but not like that'd be surprising. It's a bad idea, I know. I bet Microsoft was expecting tons of backlash towards this.
Also, from what I remember, wasn't it, when XP came out, everybody thought it looked stupid and toyish, then when Vista came out, everybody jumped to XP after seeing how bad it was? I think that's partially true. Well if it is, then that's me, if you replace WinXP with Win8 and Vista with Win10. Which is partially inaccurate considering I have Ubuntu and FreeDOS installed as of now.

Lupus590
SpoilerI'll be honest, nothing broke when upgrading. Nothing really jumped out and said "YOUR MOTHER IS NOT A VERY NICE LADY", but your minor gripe is actually quite a big gripe for me. Also, I never tried using registry edits for the interface; I've been conditioned by my dad not too, given how many people he's seen destroy their Windows install by doing just that. I bet I wouldn't destroy it if I tried (if it were still on my hdd at the time of posting.)

LoganDark
SpoilerI found it funny that you scowled at the fact I swore. I was angry, and needed venting. I should make a blog…
And yay for Win7! I liked the interface and whatnot of it quite a bit. Well, I bet now it would be kind-of a chore to use given how spoiled by the Unity and MATE I am, but it would be more usable than subsequent releases.

But I can't say the same for Macs. I can't use them. They don't have the software variety of Windows, or the openness of Linux. Even using them as a user and not a critic, it's still frustrating and backwards. At least they don't have a non-case sensitive file system (lookin' at you, Windows)

At the time of posting, I blew away Windows 10 and replaced it with FreeDOS just to piss off my brother (he just finished installing MS Office w/o my permission)
Bomb Bloke #8
Posted 29 March 2016 - 02:51 PM
Also, from what I remember, wasn't it, when XP came out, everybody thought it looked stupid and toyish, then when Vista came out, everybody jumped to XP after seeing how bad it was? I think that's partially true.

XP's default theme is indeed a bit childish, but it supports the ability to take on 95's solid appearance. Vista can do the same, and I think so can 7.

The complaints with Vista had little to do with the look of it, though. Vista and 7's default themes look a lot alike (and people flocked to 7), and aside from the tiles, 8 didn't change much either. No, the problems with Vista were rather more functional than cosmetic.

But I can't say the same for Macs. … At least they don't have a non-case sensitive file system (lookin' at you, Windows)

Macs totally support case in-sensitive file systems, and in fact their volumes are formatted to use them by default.
LoganDark #9
Posted 29 March 2016 - 03:08 PM
But I can't say the same for Macs. … At least they don't have a non-case sensitive file system (lookin' at you, Windows)

Macs totally support case in-sensitive file systems, and in fact their volumes are formatted to use them by default.

Yep. I once tried to use a font, and the lowercase "a" couldn't be saved because there was an uppercase "A" in the folder. :P/> Ended up going with a_lower…

I lost my entire reply (all finished and everything) because my browser went back two pages for no reason. Take two.

FUNCTION MAN!
SpoilerI will gladly accept any cookies the dark side has to offer.

H4X0RZ
SpoilerCool, I tried Zorin OS since it was at version 7 and it's pretty cool all in all. I've never even tried Arch, because Ubuntu (and its derivatives) have always played nice.
And how dare you sir, the Windows 7 aero theme is devilishly handsome.

Bomb Bloke
SpoilerI had a lot to reply to your post with, but the page backed out twice, because it's smart.

A lot of the stuff you say coincides with what I found on articles and just using the thing. I actually forgot to mention the forced updates, but not like that'd be surprising. It's a bad idea, I know. I bet Microsoft was expecting tons of backlash towards this.
Also, from what I remember, wasn't it, when XP came out, everybody thought it looked stupid and toyish, then when Vista came out, everybody jumped to XP after seeing how bad it was? I think that's partially true. Well if it is, then that's me, if you replace WinXP with Win8 and Vista with Win10. Which is partially inaccurate considering I have Ubuntu and FreeDOS installed as of now.

Lupus590
SpoilerI'll be honest, nothing broke when upgrading. Nothing really jumped out and said "YOUR MOTHER SUCKS C*CK IN HEEELLLL", but your minor gripe is actually quite a big gripe for me. Also, I never tried using registry edits for the interface; I've been conditioned by my dad not too, given how many people he's seen destroy their Windows install by doing just that. I bet I wouldn't destroy it if I tried (if it were still on my hdd at the time of posting.)

LoganDark
SpoilerI found it funny that you scowled at the fact I swore. I was angry, and needed venting. I should make a blog…
And yay for Win7! I liked the interface and whatnot of it quite a bit. Well, I bet now it would be kind-of a chore to use given how spoiled by the Unity and MATE I am, but it would be more usable than subsequent releases.

But I can't say the same for Macs. I can't use them. They don't have the software variety of Windows, or the openness of Linux. Even using them as a user and not a critic, it's still frustrating and backwards. At least they don't have a non-case sensitive file system (lookin' at you, Windows)

At the time of posting, I blew away Windows 10 and replaced it with FreeDOS just to piss off my brother (he just finished installing MS Office w/o my permission)

Did you just put 200 words in my mouth without warning?

I love Mac. It's my platform of choice at the moment. It can even run Windows! Let's see you run Mac on a PC officially (without hacking)
LDDestroier #10
Posted 29 March 2016 - 04:24 PM
Did you just put 200 words in my mouth without warning?

I love Mac. It's my platform of choice at the moment. It can even run Windows! Let's see you run Mac on a PC officially (without hacking)

Huh? I was saying that I didn't like Macs. And the reason that OS X cannot run on, hmm, any other computer in existence, is because it's designed to be optimized for Apple hardware only. Are you trying to say that OS X running on only one brand of computers is an advantage?
LoganDark #11
Posted 29 March 2016 - 04:46 PM
Did you just put 200 words in my mouth without warning?

I love Mac. It's my platform of choice at the moment. It can even run Windows! Let's see you run Mac on a PC officially (without hacking)

Huh? I was saying that I didn't like Macs. And the reason that OS X cannot run on, hmm, any other computer in existence, is because it's designed to be optimized for Apple hardware only. Are you trying to say that OS X running on only one brand of computers is an advantage?

No, I'm saying Macs are better (in my opinion, they are way too expensive) because they can run both OS. PCs can only run one of them, which is why I switched to Mac. They also look and feel more premium. My old laptop was bigger, bulkier, and half as powerful 20 times over. It also couldn't run Windows 7, which my little brother's old laptop can. So I have that for if I break my Mac or something (he got a new 2-in-1 which his old laptop is not).

Look up hackintosh, buddy. I know why OS X doesn't work on PCs. I've even gotten it to work on an AMD processor, using the legacy kernel, a plethora of kexts, and single-user mode. So I know what I'm doing (then I lost the legacy kernel and my installation went out the window, still can't find the Snow Leopard legacy kernel online)
Edited on 29 March 2016 - 02:46 PM
LDDestroier #12
Posted 29 March 2016 - 05:04 PM
snip

Eh. If it works with you, whatever. I'M certainly not going to buy one, but my annoyance is not completely unfounded. My computer lab uses iMacs exclusively, and the class is called "PC Repair and Networking Systems." I thought that was interesting.

Also, Ubuntu has multiple workspaces switchable with a few keypresses, multiple desktop interfaces if you don't like standard one, excellent driver detection (my wireless mouse, flash drive, camera works out of the box quickly, unlike winblows), and best of all: you can install it on more than one brand of computer and wasn't this post about bashing windows 10? This got off track.

Okay, okay, back on topic. There are advertisements in the start menu. Talk.
Konlab #13
Posted 29 March 2016 - 06:31 PM
But you can disable ads, can't you? By installing another start menu? (Theory alert) I am also sure Microsoft plans something. Is it possible to install apps from sources other than Microsoft's store? How long?
LDDestroier #14
Posted 29 March 2016 - 06:51 PM
But you can disable ads, can't you? By installing another start menu? (Theory alert) I am also sure Microsoft plans something. Is it possible to install apps from sources other than Microsoft's store? How long?

1. You can disable the ads by removing the tiles with ads, or installing a third-party menu. But ads shouldn't be in a core part of the OS.
2. Of course Microsoft is planning something else. But what…
3. Hopefully, you will never be FORCED to install from the MS store; for both the end-users' and Microsoft's sake.
SquidDev #15
Posted 29 March 2016 - 07:13 PM
1. You can disable the ads by removing the tiles with ads, or installing a third-party menu. But ads shouldn't be in a core part of the OS.
2. Of course Microsoft is planning something else. But what…
3. Hopefully, you will never be FORCED to install from the MS store; for both the end-users' and Microsoft's sake.

Disclaimer: Never used Windows 10, I mostly use Ubuntu.
  1. Ubuntu has advertising in the dash. You can disable them, but they are the default. In the case of Ubuntu it is to fund an open source project, why Windows has them I don't know.
  2. "Universal Windows Platform" apps must be verified by Microsoft (in the same way Android or iOS apps must be). Win32 applications can still run without being verified by Microsoft.
  3. However there is an option to disable this check.
MKlegoman357 #16
Posted 29 March 2016 - 08:18 PM
I myself am using Windows 10 for quite some time now and haven't had many issues with it. I don't care about any privacy issues. I think it looks a lot nicer than any Windows so far and I also like the simple design. It's different for everyone when it comes to design and layout. I'm not using any 'mods' or 3rd party software to replace the default Windows programs or features. I am also not using tiles, too used to the start menu.

If there are ads in the start menu (I haven't noticed them) I doubt it's a core part of the OS. If it's a tile - it's an app, and if it's an app it's not really a part of the actual OS, is it?

Talking about start menu, I'm really used to the search feature, it works super fast and I can open any program I want in just second or two.

The main (maybe the only, for me) problems I have are two: automatic updates and tightened security. The first one bugs me because sometimes I am not connected to an infinite-data internet connection and I like to control when I actually download and install the updates. The second one is annoying when I'm modding games. Most (although not all) games' folders have their security tightened, so that you need to confirm every action you do, like deleting or moving files. It gets annoying with those messages ("You need to provide administrator permission to…") with a simple button to confirm that you're an administrator, which is kinda stupid…

I updated to Windows 10 (from Windows 7) mainly because of:

  • the design looks better
  • windows explorer has a better layout and more features
  • the command prompt got some little changes
  • the default windows apps for videos, music and photos (also calculator), they're awesome!

But of course there are issues with Windows 10, I'm not trying to deny it. When it comes to Windows I think you should be using Windows 7, and unless you have a good reason to update, don't really use Windows 10. There are a lot of hate about it (although a bit too much), and it's not just nothing. You should be aware of what your computer is running and what your needs are. I am satisfied with Windows 10.
LDDestroier #17
Posted 29 March 2016 - 08:31 PM
My rage is up. Win10 is off my computer, and replaced with FreeDOS. I just got a soundblaster card. Now I just feel tipsy…maybe it's sleep deprivation.
Bomb Bloke #18
Posted 29 March 2016 - 10:50 PM
Of course Microsoft is planning something else. But what…

"Universal Windows Platform" apps must be verified by Microsoft (in the same way Android or iOS apps must be). Win32 applications can still run without being verified by Microsoft.

Yes, this is their plan. The end goal is to have the average user installing all software via their store, which 1) provides and income and 2) should help keep malware down.

In practise, I'm not sure how well it'll work. As it stands, store software is subject to limitations that standard desktop software isn't. That will probably change, but companies such as Valve are likely to push against it anyway.

the default windows apps for videos, music and photos (also calculator), they're awesome!

Oh, they've done some work on Calculator? I'll have to look into that, see whether it's improved back up to its glory days in XP.

Paint's another app which has seriously devolved under later versions of Windows. It's been outright bug-ridden since 7 (didn't try it in Vista), and the UI has taken a big step backwards.

I mean, it's not like I don't have three other applications installed for image manipulation (plus more for viewing), but when it comes to basic pixel art Paint's pretty hard to beat.

Speaking of viewing, I've even had to go ahead and install a different slideshow-capable viewer for images, due to the lack of animating GIF support since XP. Naturally I simply installed XP's viewer.

Each new version of Windows seems to defy the "if it's not broken don't fix it" rule when it comes to interface design and feature support, and 10 even embraces the "freemium" culture I've long looked down on. One can only hold back on updates for so long, as computers don't last forever and new ones come bundled with the latest OS. It's frustrating.
HPWebcamAble #19
Posted 29 March 2016 - 11:06 PM
Wanted to add my two cents…

I installed windows 10 on my new PC, and it works well. Far from perfect, but good enough that I like it.

First, I'd highly advise that you DO NOT upgrade a PC to 10 from a computer that has been used. Too many things can go wrong.
On the other hand, a fresh install (or an update to 10 from a fresh install of 7, 8, or 8.1) rarely, if ever, has issues with the install.

The search (from the start menu) is a bit lacking;
It finds things like Google Chrome and most settings very well, but Minecraft? Feed the Beast? No.
In fact, it can't find files at all really. (MC and FTB aren't officially 'installed' programs)

File explorer works as it should, for me at least.

Oh, they've done some work on Calculator? I'll have to look into that, see whether it's improved back up to its glory days in XP.

Paint's another app which has seriously devolved under later versions of Windows. It's been outright bug-ridden since 7 (didn't try it in Vista), and the UI has taken a big step backwards.
Yep, calculator has gotten an upgrade. It actually surprised me, the old one worked so.. I didn't see an incentive to change it… I feel like that's not a good thing to immediately think.

Paint? I have no idea, I actually haven't even used it in 10. paint.net is a great, free alternative to the built-in paint and is similar to Photoshop.
Notepad still sucks too, but I use Notepad++ so it doesn't really matter to me.


  • Windows 10 broke the MBR, again. I duel-boot Ubuntu with Windows.
It.. did? Do you mean when you updated, it broke your MBR?
Who needs that dated tech anyway, all the kool kids use GPT
Konlab #20
Posted 30 March 2016 - 06:14 AM
1. You can disable the ads by removing the tiles with ads, or installing a third-party menu. But ads shouldn't be in a core part of the OS.
2. Of course Microsoft is planning something else. But what…
3. Hopefully, you will never be FORCED to install from the MS store; for both the end-users' and Microsoft's sake.

Disclaimer: Never used Windows 10, I mostly use Ubuntu.
  1. Ubuntu has advertising in the dash. You can disable them, but they are the default. In the case of Ubuntu it is to fund an open source project, why Windows has them I don't know.
  2. "Universal Windows Platform" apps must be verified by Microsoft (in the same way Android or iOS apps must be). Win32 applications can still run without being verified by Microsoft.
  3. However there is an option to disable this check.
Android apps don't need to be veryfied, only if you want to put them on play store.
ry00000 #21
Posted 01 April 2016 - 06:27 PM
My rage is up. Win10 is off my computer, and replaced with FreeDOS. I just got a soundblaster card. Now I just feel tipsy…maybe it's sleep deprivation.

Nah man, it's probably nostalgia. Pick up a USB floppy drive and a copy of Windows 3.1 and let it install, then you'll really feel it.
LDDestroier #22
Posted 05 April 2016 - 02:58 AM
Update: While I was watching some videos, the computer behind me automatically upgraded from Windows 7 to 10. I would be pissed, but the computer isn't used by anyone, so I just laughed it off. I still can't believe it just upgraded the operating system literally behind my back.
Anavrins #23
Posted 05 April 2016 - 03:25 AM
That would make me ditch out Windows completely if that had happened to me.
Thought, I've never had problems with this update, I simply opened Windows Update, right-clicked the "Windows 10" update, and hid it, additionally, I have auto-update off, and I regularly check for them manually.
It never annoyed me since, at least not intrusively.
Edited on 05 April 2016 - 01:25 AM
Bomb Bloke #24
Posted 05 April 2016 - 03:42 AM
I have auto-update off

That's the important bit here - Microsoft keep unhiding it, and now that they've made it a "recommended" update instead of an "optional" one, it'll indeed put itself onto your system automatically under the default config.
Anavrins #25
Posted 05 April 2016 - 03:44 AM
It's still in "optional" for me for some reasons.

Plus, I think I might just ditch out Windows right now, it's been 30 mins in this update, and my network monitor saw no traffic at all…
Spoiler
rip win7 , I guess they decided to end it's extended support 4 years in advance…
Edited on 05 April 2016 - 02:00 AM
TheRockettek #26
Posted 05 April 2016 - 12:59 PM
:P/> The only reason i use windows 10 is because windows 8.1 with bing was horrible! It was such a cpu hog :P/>. I dont like windows 10 i i can cope with it
PixelToast #27
Posted 05 April 2016 - 08:03 PM
I have a tri boot setup on one harddrive, windows 7, windows 10, and debian
overnight without my permission windows 7 "upgraded" to windows 10 completely breaking GRUB and the software installed that diddnt work on windows 10 (the only reason i HAD the separate partition in the first place)

also when i leave windows 10 on overnight it randomly BSODs, reboots into windows recovery, thinks GRUB is somehow the cause of the problem and overwrites it
i have had to re install GRUB from a flash drive 6 times now, im sticking with running windows in a VM im completely done

i. really. hate. windows 10

microsoft keeps saying windows 7 is insecure because it was released in 2009 which is just marketing nonsense to excuse them shoving it down your throat
windows 10 is just the windows 7 kernel with UI and default software changes
Anavrins #28
Posted 05 April 2016 - 10:32 PM
microsoft keeps saying windows 7 is insecure because it was released in 2009 which is just marketing nonsense to excuse them shoving it down your throat
My thoughts exactly, their extended support last until 2020, and it does include security updates
If you're willing to let me use Win7 until 2020, then let me use it until 2020 damnit :(/>
Edited on 05 April 2016 - 08:33 PM
Bomb Bloke #29
Posted 06 April 2016 - 12:51 AM
windows 10 is just the windows 7 kernel with UI and default software changes

Truth be told, Vista was version 6, and Windows 7 / 8 / 8.1 are all version 6.x as well. 10 skips versions 7 / 8 / 9 and calls itself version 10.

That is to say, really it's all just been modified versions of Vista for however many years.

(Seriously though, some say that sticking with version 6.x for so long was one method of preventing programs from throwing errors simply because they didn't like the look of the OS version number. This is probably the case, but I've always felt that "7" was always a little joke from Microsoft - they rushed out something that was nearly the same as Vista (because people hated Vista), and the version number (6) properly reflects that, but the title "7" was a pretence that they were more different than was actually the case.)
EveryOS #30
Posted 06 April 2016 - 12:58 PM
windows 10 is just the windows 7 kernel with UI and default software changes
I use virtual machines when I'm away from my computer that has any sense to it (I just hate the computer I'm browsing the forums with) and from my experience, windows10, unlike windows7, converts jar files to zip files. So if it's the case that windows10 is essentially windows7 with UI, then why does it convert the files?
Edited on 06 April 2016 - 10:58 AM
Tiin57 #31
Posted 06 April 2016 - 01:48 PM
windows 10 is just the windows 7 kernel with UI and default software changes
I use virtual machines when I'm away from my computer that has any sense to it (I just hate the computer I'm browsing the forums with) and from my experience, windows10, unlike windows7, converts jar files to zip files. So if it's the case that windows10 is essentially windows7 with UI, then why does it convert the files?

Jar files are zip files with a different name. They're the same format. It wouldn't require any major changes to recognize jars as zips, since the file structure is the same.
MKlegoman357 #32
Posted 06 April 2016 - 02:20 PM
I use virtual machines when I'm away from my computer that has any sense to it (I just hate the computer I'm browsing the forums with) and from my experience, windows10, unlike windows7, converts jar files to zip files. So if it's the case that windows10 is essentially windows7 with UI, then why does it convert the files?

Windows doesn't convert any files you download with your internet browser, it's the browser itself that creates the file and thus changes the extension. Neither MS Edge, nor IE does such a thing.
Edited on 06 April 2016 - 01:37 PM
Lupus590 #33
Posted 06 April 2016 - 03:05 PM
Have you got extensions on? If not then it may not be converting the file, but it may be treating the jar as a zip.

Continuing on from what Tiin57 said, jar and zip are conceptually different. A jar is expected to be executable with a Java VM whereas a zip is expected to be a compressed folder of files. But not everyone adherers to standards
Edited on 06 April 2016 - 01:06 PM
H4X0RZ #34
Posted 06 April 2016 - 09:39 PM
I don't believe that windows 10 is just a new ui for 7. That's like saying 8 is just a ui too. AFAIK 10 is based on a new core which is shared between PC and mobile. Also 10 is going to support Linux executables, natively.
Bomb Bloke #35
Posted 07 April 2016 - 01:24 AM
Continuing on from what Tiin57 said, jar and zip are conceptually different. A jar is expected to be executable with a Java VM whereas a zip is expected to be a compressed folder of files. But not everyone adherers to standards

They're both archives, and when you get right down to it, they even share the same file headers. JARs are ZIP files, and hence it's impossible to "convert" from one to the other - for the same reason you can't convert a door into a door. It's already a door.

However, certain web browsers "correct" the extensions of downloaded files if the headers don't "match". Some such browsers aren't bright enough to recognise that JAR can be an appropriate extension for ZIPs, and rename them when they shouldn't. I know older versions of Safari did this (and it wouldn't surprise me if current ones do it too).

Whether you've got the underlying OS set to display file extensions has nothing to do with whether they're there or how they're treated. But yes, if the browser is retaining the correct file extension, it'll do you no good if Windows has got JARs associated with WinZip or somesuch. Pretty low odds of that, though.

I don't believe that windows 10 is just a new ui for 7.

It's not. I mean, yeah they share enough code (and bugs) that you can say it in jest, but the term "just" is admittedly inappropriate.
MKlegoman357 #36
Posted 08 April 2016 - 08:22 PM
Automatic Windows updates never bothered me, until now, as I'll be on a metered connection for about two weeks. So I went online to look for a 'hack' to disable them and instead found that the "Ask me to download and install" option is still actually a part of windows updates.
Bomb Bloke #37
Posted 09 April 2016 - 12:05 AM
Good to know, but I notice that applies to professional versions only.
Stekeblad #38
Posted 09 April 2016 - 09:36 AM
Automatic Windows updates never bothered me, until now, as I'll be on a metered connection for about two weeks. So I went online to look for a 'hack' to disable them and instead found that the "Ask me to download and install" option is still actually a part of windows updates.

Their is a setting to tell Windows that a connection is metered and then Windows will reduce its own traffic over that connection. I don't know how this affects Windows Update but it will probably save you some data.
MKlegoman357 #39
Posted 09 April 2016 - 06:57 PM
Their is a setting to tell Windows that a connection is metered and then Windows will reduce its own traffic over that connection. I don't know how this affects Windows Update but it will probably save you some data.

Yes, I'm aware of that setting.
Dog #40
Posted 09 April 2016 - 07:03 PM
Thanks for the link, MKlegoman357 - very informative :)/>
cmdpwnd #41
Posted 09 April 2016 - 10:42 PM
Windows 10 integrated Ubuntu under WSL.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q...+10+build+14316

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2016/04/06/bash-on-ubuntu-on-windows-download-now-3/
Edited on 09 April 2016 - 08:49 PM
apemanzilla #42
Posted 10 April 2016 - 05:29 AM

Neat, but I'm sticking with Windows 7 and VMs. More complete support for Linux, and less auto-update and telemetry BS.

On a side note, I just did my weekly system update, reading the update notes before installing any of them. Of the 1 important update and 11 optional updates, 5 of the optional updates were GWX, more data collection stuff, or W10 upgrade compatibility patches.
Edited on 10 April 2016 - 03:30 AM
Dog #43
Posted 10 April 2016 - 05:41 AM
I'm curious - does anyone else here use Spybot Anti-Beacon for Win7/8/10?
TheRockettek #44
Posted 10 April 2016 - 07:38 AM
you can turn off automatic updates :P/>

Better untick the one below :D/>
Bomb Bloke #45
Posted 10 April 2016 - 08:13 AM
you can turn off automatic updates :P/>

You can disable the entire update system, or under Pro you can have it notify you of updates without actually downloading / installing them, but I don't see anything in that particular screenshot you've posted that has anything to do with what you're saying. "Postphoning until restart" isn't the same as "disabling".
TheRockettek #46
Posted 10 April 2016 - 10:53 AM
:[
Mumbai #47
Posted 13 July 2016 - 07:53 PM
I believe it was January when the Commisoft started the forced Windows 10 upgrade on Windows 7 machines. They've tried to send the forced update as well as in April, then now again in July. They only way to prevent the forced upgrade is to turn off automatic updates, manually researching and accepting the KB updates that they try to shove down your throats. (or as alot of you do already) go to Linux based.

KB3035583 < = Update that tried, or is still trying, to upgrade Windows machines. Hide that

(yes, I felt the need to reiterate to reinforce the idea to other forum users.)
Edited on 13 July 2016 - 05:55 PM
CrazedProgrammer #48
Posted 13 July 2016 - 08:40 PM
I believe it was January when the Commisoft started the forced Windows 10 upgrade on Windows 7 machines. They've tried to send the forced update as well as in April, then now again in July. They only way to prevent the forced upgrade is to turn off automatic updates, manually researching and accepting the KB updates that they try to shove down your throats. (or as alot of you do already) go to Linux based.

KB3035583 < = Update that tried, or is still trying, to upgrade Windows machines. Hide that

(yes, I felt the need to reiterate to reinforce the idea to other forum users.)
I'm pretty sure you can ignore the update or postpone it indefinitely now.
Dog #49
Posted 13 July 2016 - 10:03 PM
If you want to stop being bothered by Win10 upgrade notices, there is one registry change. To stop the upgrade entirely is another registry change.

To disable the Get Windows 10 icon and notifications:
HKLM/Software/Policies/Microsoft/Windows/GWX

New DWORD (32-bit): DisableGWX (set it to 1)

To disable the OS upgrade entirely:
HKLM/Software/Policies/Microsoft/Windows/WindowsUpdate

New DWORD (32-bit): DisableOSUpgrade (set it to 1)

To disable automatic updates in Win10, set your connection to 'Metered' - then you control when updates are downloaded. You still can't pick and choose between updates, but it's better than nothing…
Mumbai #50
Posted 14 July 2016 - 02:08 PM
If you want to stop being bothered by Win10 upgrade notices, there is one registry change. To stop the upgrade entirely is another registry change.

To disable the Get Windows 10 icon and notifications:
HKLM/Software/Policies/Microsoft/Windows/GWX

New DWORD (32-bit): DisableGWX (set it to 1)

To disable the OS upgrade entirely:
HKLM/Software/Policies/Microsoft/Windows/WindowsUpdate

New DWORD (32-bit): DisableOSUpgrade (set it to 1)

To disable automatic updates in Win10, set your connection to 'Metered' - then you control when updates are downloaded. You still can't pick and choose between updates, but it's better than nothing…

I see. But I plan on sticking with Ubuntu and Win 7. for some users, including myself, the icon with the win 10 logo will not go away even though I keep editing the registry. It will disappear then on next reboot it will be back. Ill try deleting that file, else stick with Ubuntu 16.04
Edited on 14 July 2016 - 12:08 PM
Dog #51
Posted 14 July 2016 - 05:12 PM
I don't know what to tell you, Mumbai. I've used those registry hacks on several Win7 machines and they've worked on every one without issue.
MKlegoman357 #52
Posted 15 July 2016 - 10:44 PM
To disable automatic updates in Win10, set your connection to 'Metered' - then you control when updates are downloaded. You still can't pick and choose between updates, but it's better than nothing…

Automatic Windows updates never bothered me, until now, as I'll be on a metered connection for about two weeks. So I went online to look for a 'hack' to disable them and instead found that the "Ask me to download and install" option is still actually a part of windows updates.

Good to know, but I notice that applies to professional versions only.

Thanks for the link, MKlegoman357 - very informative :)/>

Disabling automatic updates worked fine for me. When there are updates Windows will pop a notification and wait for you to actually approve you want to download those updates. Though you cannot select which updates to install.
Dog #53
Posted 16 July 2016 - 01:10 AM

Automatic Windows updates never bothered me, until now, as I'll be on a metered connection for about two weeks. So I went online to look for a 'hack' to disable them and instead found that the "Ask me to download and install" option is still actually a part of windows updates.

Thanks for the link, MKlegoman357 - very informative :)/>
Disabling automatic updates worked fine for me. When there are updates Windows will pop a notification and wait for you to actually approve you want to download those updates. Though you cannot select which updates to install.

So *this* are where I learned about the metered connection trick. My apologies for not properly attributing that information to you, MKlegoman357.
jv110 #54
Posted 18 July 2016 - 06:05 PM
I didn't have a problem with Windows 10. It looks flat and modern, leaving the ugly skewomorphic design from Windows 7-.

The Start Menu is practically perfect. The All apps thing is the most useful thing ever, and it really cleans your desktop. It also keeps your most used apps near, and some other useful things. The grid on the right also helps a bit, though not very important because of the All apps thing. If that menu was there instead of the grid, it would probably be a bit uglier, but have approximmately the same usefulness.
The start menu may be delayed some times, but most times it's OK. The only problem with it is the little "user" menu with options to lock, quit, settings and change user. Sometimes I want to just quickly lock my computer and do something, but I have to wait a long time for it to open. That's only on the first time though, so if you want to lock it quick, be sure to open that same menu as soon as you unlock.
And… advertisements? I don't see one. Only built-in official Microsoft apps and some that I installed, plus some blank squares.

Search is also super useful, but not much to say about that one.

And it doesn't break apps. If they don't run on 10, try compatibility mode.

There are also no privacy concerns. They're not watching each and every user and, idk, making fun of you. You can disable those features, though.
Lego Stax #55
Posted 03 August 2016 - 03:55 PM
For Windows 10 users who want to disable Automatic Updates: Run services.msc in the Run window (Windows Key + R), find the Windows Update service, stop the service, right-click and click on Properties, then change the Startup type option to Disabled and hit OK.

This should leave Windows in a confused state where it is not capable of starting its own system service.

EDIT: 123rd post!
Edited on 03 August 2016 - 01:55 PM
CrazedProgrammer #56
Posted 03 August 2016 - 09:23 PM
For Windows 10 users who want to disable Automatic Updates: Run services.msc in the Run window (Windows Key + R), find the Windows Update service, stop the service, right-click and click on Properties, then change the Startup type option to Disabled and hit OK.

This should leave Windows in a confused state where it is not capable of starting its own system service.

EDIT: 123rd post!
Thanks, very useful!
I haven't had any issues with updates (essentially the same as those good ole windows xp updates),
but I will archive this in case Microsoft comes up with some really anti-consumer stuff.