Rednet Satellites - RedSat?

So i had a lil idea and ill be dead honest :D/>/>

The Wifi range on modem is the BANE of my existence, so i was wondering would it perhaps be a alternative to make a simple satellite computer? Now when i say this, what i mean is ,hypothetically saying, that its basically a floating Computer in space (the sky) that has an advanced antenna.
Which has a limited (maybe limitless) range for broadcasting RedNet but on a larger scale than the Modems.

So what could happen is the player gets the necessary materials together to make, code and launch a simple satellite to handle small (this might be an understatement) tasks like redirecting Rednet traffic to a server farm ,or even just being the host for the GPS api.

I'm not exactly too sure of an idea as to how the satellite will look before a simple launch such as a rocket or whatever but once the satellite is actually launched once can perhaps save a lil CPU processing and maybe just add a tiny, tiny red light on the night skybox, which would indicate a satellite high above.

Personally I'd make the satellite an relatively expensive piece of tech to gather materials for :)/>/>

Now one can try balance the Satellite so that people don't spam the living heck out of the heavens by :

• Making the computers have very little memory
• Or make the computers capable of only the simplest programs and API's
• Make the materials needed a bit rare (eg. Emeralds for antenna pieces)

A con to the satellite is that once its up, it stays up!!

Anyway :P/>/> this is my first suggestion so go easy on me
Thanks

You can use current computer as a satellite. Just lift it up to 255 height. Modem range on this height is enough for most tasks. You can lift it by Turtle. Think of it as a rocket. It would be hardly noticeable up above.

Yeah i know, but if you play tekkit or own/play a server it would be real nice if you can have a way larger range usual.
Like i mean, this would be a large scale use tool

There is a config file that lets you set range.

Stormkrow, on 08 November 2012 - 03:06 AM said:

Yeah i know, but if you play tekkit or own/play a server it would be real nice if you can have a way larger range usual.
Like i mean, this would be a large scale use tool

I don't get your point.
Tekkit uses an outdated version of CC, we are not supporting it anymore.

In my opinion, infinite modem range is just overpowered, limitations would just be bad attempts reducing it.

This is a cool idea.
Yes, you can send computers up to 255, but the idea is to send them far above 255 (obviously, they wouldn't be blocks any more, the mod would just remember there was a computer there) with a corresponding increase in modem range.

i kind of like the idea too. I dont remeber exactly how long the longest possible range you can do with modems is. But i dont think it was that much. So it would be nice to have a way to send over a really long distance. linking city's on rednet internet :P/>/> I know this would also be possible with adding multiple computers with modems and have them forward the signal to the final recipient. but if the distance is big enough it get's kind of hard to keep all nodes up and running.

First, you can set the modem range higher if you're dead set on this. But really, you would need to use world chunk anchors to take advantage of much more range than you can already get at max height. So just place relays with the chunk anchors. It is not hard.

sjonky, on 08 November 2012 - 04:48 PM said:

i kind of like the idea too. I dont remeber exactly how long the longest possible range you can do with modems is. But i dont think it was that much. So it would be nice to have a way to send over a really long distance. linking city's on rednet internet :P/>/> I know this would also be possible with adding multiple computers with modems and have them forward the signal to the final recipient. but if the distance is big enough it get's kind of hard to keep all nodes up and running.

It's 384, which gives you over 250 blocks at bedrock level (I don't remember the exact number), which is plenty if you're just using it to relay messages around your base.
But imagine using a satellite for long-distance communications, like between peoples' bases (without just giving infinite range to everything, which is less fun).
Especially if they run even while their chunks are unloaded, which is possible depending on how it was implemented.

ChunLing, on 08 November 2012 - 06:57 PM said:

First, you can set the modem range higher if you're dead set on this. But really, you would need to use world chunk anchors to take advantage of much more range than you can already get at max height. So just place relays with the chunk anchors. It is not hard.

You might have two islands of loaded chunks with unloaded chunks in between - in multiplayer it's not hard to conceive of such a situation.
Editing configs isn't nearly as fun as launching satellites.

Edit: I thought those posts would auto-merge, oh well

Yeah, i understand the higher you go up the longer the range but my reason for saying this is to make it simpler for people (like me :P/>/>) who have bases faaaaaaar apart. And wheres as the chunk loaders work great, they to have a downside. I might be mistaken and correct me if im wrong but the chunk loaders have the exact same entity as players, which can cause some strain on servers if your player cap is lower than the amount of anchors or loaders. Also, ive seen loaders or anchors corrupt some chunks before so im a lil weary. . .

My friend had this problem on a small server he was running.

Yeah, editing the configs might a the easiest solution but immibis said it wouldnt be nearly as fun as launching a 'satellite'

It would be cool to launch comp-satellite to height ~500. It will get ~1000 m modem radius with current formula. It would looks like a red static dot in revolving sky. It would be challenge to setup. It would work in unloaded chunk. But it would be not needed work for developers.

Another option is ask Chickenbone to make his wireless mod to work as Peripheral and Turtle Upgrade.

ChunLing, on 08 November 2012 - 06:57 PM said:

First, you can set the modem range higher if you're dead set on this. But really, you would need to use world chunk anchors to take advantage of much more range than you can already get at max height. So just place relays with the chunk anchors. It is not hard.

If you want to make connection between two distant locations, it means A LOT of chunkloaders. And if you play on public SMP server, it would mean huge strain on server from all those chunkloaders, especially if every player wants its own rednet network.

Changing config is just cheating if you ask me.



What about some king of rednet repeater block that would work even in unloaded chunks? CC would simply keep locations of all repeaters in the world regardless if they are loaded or not. That way rednet signal could transfer large distances, but you would still need to do something for it like now. Just without resource (I mean computing resources) heavy chunkloaders.

matejdro, on 10 November 2012 - 07:58 AM said:

What about some king of rednet repeater block that would work even in unloaded chunks? CC would simply keep locations of all repeaters in the world regardless if they are loaded or not. That way rednet signal could transfer large distances, but you would still need to do something for it like now. Just without resource (I mean computing resources) heavy chunkloaders.

This demands repeater (Computer) to be out of world. In the sky for example. Reason is forced inability to interact with the world.

I don't really get your last post. Why repeater can't be a block?

It can be…
But do you want to program it yourself? If so, it is a computer. If no it is too dumb for this mod.
Do you wan it to be computer, restricted to rednet only? If so, why not to place it in the sky? If no, it would work weird in unloaded chunk.

Taking the idea a few steps further:

1) To communicate through satellites, a parabolic or similar antenna block is needed. This is of course a peripheral comparable to the wl modem - but cannot be attached to turtles. They could also have restrictions like sky view (checking angles?).
2) Who says the satellites has to be geostationary? If you don't launch a certain number of satellites, communications only work during certain parts of the (minecraft) day. (How would this go with range limitations?)

But the bigger problem is that now we're getting into the topic of a satellites mod; which would alone have a bigger scope than all of CC currently is.

MaHuJa, on 16 November 2012 - 02:31 AM said:

1) To communicate through satellites, a parabolic or similar antenna block is needed. This is of course a peripheral comparable to the wl modem - but cannot be attached to turtles. They could also have restrictions like sky view (checking angles?).

Paraboloid modem is a possible suggestion here as a Peripheral but not a Turtle Upgrade. Although possible to be used by turtle as any other Peripheral. Works as a modem but in direction it points only. May be with ten times range. May be allow normal modem <-> Paraboloid modem interaction with triple range. It can help to establish far connection too.
This reminds me about Phase Array Antenna. A Modem, able to increase its Range by pointing in specific direction. No need to turn in that direction phisically. Possible craft recipe is 9 (16 in Crafty) Modems.

2) Who says the satellites has to be geostationary? If you don't launch a certain number of satellites, communications only work during certain parts of the (minecraft) day. (How would this go with range limitations?)

Not before you calculate Minecraft World Radius and point equator. :P/>/>

But the bigger problem is that now we're getting into the topic of a satellites mod; which would alone have a bigger scope than all of CC currently is.

LUA programming is big enough scope. Is any good satellites mod on horizon?

It could be similar to a normal computer, but without a screen and with a built in rednet modem, so to make it work you would first have to connect it to a computer to program it. When programming it, you would need to either make it possible to control it using rednet, or make a program that works alone and doesn't need to be modified.

And there could be a config option to make them have some TNT inside… It could be fun with the rednet frequencies suggestion… Someone could hack it and make it explode! :P/>
Or use creative to launch hundreds and… FIREWORKS! :D/>

Hum, any idea if it is possible to make an add-on for ComputerCraft that implements this without upsetting the mod developers? Because this clearly can't be done with peripherals (or can it… maybe a computer can act as control station and the satellite just extends the rednet capabilities of said control station?), and may require creating a new type of computer.

It is possible to make peripheral, able to launch satellite in the sky. Satellite can be launched if no obstacles above. If there is another satellite in this point of sky, both are broken. While satellite in the sky peripheral acts as a modem, based in the satellite point. Satellite installs directly above peripheral at selected height 490~510. Visible in the sky as a tiny stationar dot.
This variant can solve most tasks but will not work in unloaded chunks.

CoolisTheName007, on 02 January 2013 - 04:48 AM said:

Hum, any idea if it is possible to make an add-on for ComputerCraft that implements this without upsetting the mod developers? Because this clearly can't be done with peripherals (or can it… maybe a computer can act as control station and the satellite just extends the rednet capabilities of said control station?), and may require creating a new type of computer.

I coded something similar using turtles, it can currently server as a GPS host, ping other hosts in range and return their answers. It's also fully remotely controllable and I plan on adding message forwarding.
http://www.computercraft.info/forums2/index.php?/topic/7442-leosat/

TE
D

ChunLing, on 02 January 2013 - 08:38 AM said:

TE
D

What?

ChunLing, on 02 January 2013 - 08:38 AM said:

TE
D

If that means enderchests, well, it's both more lag (having to write to disk) and possibly slower than bundled cables (need to write to floppy, put floppy in ender chest, extract, repeat), and besides needs an extra mod. And it's more unrealistic than a satellite with limited range.
Btw, the urban dictionary is really ambiguous on something like TE D.

This would be great. Hope this gets in CC. :D/>

CoolisTheName007, on 07 January 2013 - 04:52 AM said:

ChunLing, on 02 January 2013 - 08:38 AM said:

TE
D

If that means enderchests, well, it's both more lag (having to write to disk) and possibly slower than bundled cables (need to write to floppy, put floppy in ender chest, extract, repeat), and besides needs an extra mod. And it's more unrealistic than a satellite with limited range.
Btw, the urban dictionary is really ambiguous on something like TE D.

I believe it's a diagram. T for turtle, D for disk drive, E for enderchest.

immibis, on 07 January 2013 - 01:25 PM said:

snip

Thanks. Btw, I realized that method is no lag-creating, because it limits the speed of what you can do.

You mean, it wouldn't slow down the server, just your long-range communication system?

I was just being cute, though. Really I favor just upping the altitude bonus range in the config if you want to enable longer range, particularly since the altitude bonus starts at sea level. Putting a relay or GPS node at max altitude is already a substantial requirement.

I like the idea of sending satellites and having to put down a satellites dish. The satellites dish would have the same range as a modem when talking to the computer but unlimited range to the satellite it self. I also like the idea of satellites only working at certain times based on the time of day.

I like the idea

I do like the idea of a directional rednet peripheral. Even if it doubled the range you'd be getting something along the lines of 600-700 blocks per satellite.

As a slight addition to the current suggestions, if setting up a mid-range satellite network use MiscPeripherals and use a wireless chunkloading turtle. You should be able to set up a communication grid with a turtle only every 20 chunks or so, and everything in computer craft is cheaper than beer anyway.

Lets make a peripheral! After reading all posts, I have some ideas:

• You need to craft a satellite and a launcher (this doesn't behave like a peripheral, only Minecraft). Then launch the satellite and it will stay in the sky.
• Then you need to make a parabolic antenna (peripheral) that you can use to send and receive messages. When you send a message it will check if there is a satellite and if it can see the sky from its position.
• It won't work with rednet network and it will be based on chanels.
• It will be slow, it will take time to send messages (a second for example).
• The range will be infinite (since there isn't any block in the world) but it won't work well with rain/snow (maybe slower).
• You will still need a chunk loader for the sender and the reciver, but we can make parabolics to be chunkloaders.

This is the same as write 99999 in the rednet range in the config file, but without cheating, since you need to craft the satellite and wheather matters…
If you want, we can start a github project where anyone can help (like openCCSensors). What do you think?

diegodan1893, on 01 February 2013 - 11:24 AM said:

Lets make a peripheral! After reading all posts, I have some ideas:

• You need to craft a satellite and a launcher (this doesn't behave like a peripheral, only Minecraft). Then launch the satellite and it will stay in the sky.
• Then you need to make a parabolic antenna (peripheral) that you can use to send and receive messages. When you send a message it will check if there is a satellite and if it can see the sky from its position.
• It won't work with rednet network and it will be based on chanels.
• It will be slow, it will take time to send messages (a second for example).
• The range will be infinite (since there isn't any block in the world) but it won't work well with rain/snow (maybe slower).
• You will still need a chunk loader for the sender and the reciver, but we can make parabolics to be chunkloaders.

This is the same as write 99999 in the rednet range in the config file, but without cheating, since you need to craft the satellite and wheather matters…
If you want, we can start a github project where anyone can help (like openCCSensors). What do you think?

Go for it! I'd probably use this if it was a peripheral, but I don't see this being added to the main mod.

diegodan1893, on 01 February 2013 - 11:24 AM said:

Lets make a peripheral! After reading all posts, I have some ideas:

• You need to craft a satellite and a launcher (this doesn't behave like a peripheral, only Minecraft). Then launch the satellite and it will stay in the sky.
• Then you need to make a parabolic antenna (peripheral) that you can use to send and receive messages. When you send a message it will check if there is a satellite and if it can see the sky from its position.
• It won't work with rednet network and it will be based on chanels.
• It will be slow, it will take time to send messages (a second for example).
• The range will be infinite (since there isn't any block in the world) but it won't work well with rain/snow (maybe slower).
• You will still need a chunk loader for the sender and the reciver, but we can make parabolics to be chunkloaders.

This is the same as write 99999 in the rednet range in the config file, but without cheating, since you need to craft the satellite and wheather matters…
If you want, we can start a github project where anyone can help (like openCCSensors). What do you think?

That seems like seems like a good idea and i would love to help u code it….but I suck at all other languages but lua…..i need 2 learn more…

Skullblade, on 01 February 2013 - 01:03 PM said:

diegodan1893, on 01 February 2013 - 11:24 AM said:

Lets make a peripheral! After reading all posts, I have some ideas:

• You need to craft a satellite and a launcher (this doesn't behave like a peripheral, only Minecraft). Then launch the satellite and it will stay in the sky.
• Then you need to make a parabolic antenna (peripheral) that you can use to send and receive messages. When you send a message it will check if there is a satellite and if it can see the sky from its position.
• It won't work with rednet network and it will be based on chanels.
• It will be slow, it will take time to send messages (a second for example).
• The range will be infinite (since there isn't any block in the world) but it won't work well with rain/snow (maybe slower).
• You will still need a chunk loader for the sender and the reciver, but we can make parabolics to be chunkloaders.

This is the same as write 99999 in the rednet range in the config file, but without cheating, since you need to craft the satellite and wheather matters…
If you want, we can start a github project where anyone can help (like openCCSensors). What do you think?

That seems like seems like a good idea and i would love to help u code it….but I suck at all other languages but lua…..i need 2 learn more…

Have you tried The New Boston? He has tutorials on a ton of programming languages, and even stuff like Physics. He has ~200 videos on Java, which is my favorite language.

Oooo, idea! What if, in addition to controlling whatever services the satellite provided (GPS, etc.), it also controlled manuevering / stablilization? Then, if the computer crashes or returns to shell, then the satellite comes tumbling down to the ground…possibly on your property. This would also allow the satellite to move around within a pre-defined fuel limit (think turtles, but no mining/item manipulation/refueling).

Okay, a bit more explanation for my sub-idea:

When initally launching your satellite, it's "height" is set to 520 (or so).
Every day, your satellite has a chance of lowering itself on its own.
Every 5 days, the satellite lowers itself on its own if it has not already done so within the last 5 days (this should probably be configurable)
If your satellite's height drops below 500, it re-enters the atmosphere and hits a random spot in the 10 chunks surrounding where it "was" (If you didn't move the satellite at all, this would be the launch site). When it hits the ground, it causes a small explosion (think IC2's ITNT, but slightly bigger and less cubical).
To prevent people from simply moving up and up and up, all altitude change operations take 2-3 fuel (dependent on the time of day) and only take effect the next day. This does not apply to moving left, right, forward, or backwards.
The satellite only starts with 100 or so fuel (again, this should probably be configurable).
Satellites that "collide" (get within 5 or so blocks from each other) tumble out of orbit. Yes, both the collider and the collidee. Alternatively, they could just explode in orbit, showering the ground with small fragments. (Think what happens when a whole satellite tumbles out of orbit, but with smaller explosions, and there are more of them.)

This explanation was (partially) based on Kerbal Space Program orbits.

CoolisTheName007, on 02 January 2013 - 04:48 AM said:

Hum, any idea if it is possible to make an add-on for ComputerCraft that implements this without upsetting the mod developers? Because this clearly can't be done with peripherals (or can it… maybe a computer can act as control station and the satellite just extends the rednet capabilities of said control station?), and may require creating a new type of computer.

Oooh peripheral is a good idea! Have satellites and then satellite antenna peripherals to read the satellite signals. And then a satellite manager peripheral to manage it. This way any messages sent to the satellite are sent to a central computer, and that computer determines what to do with it, such as sending it to another computer with a satellite antenna.

Dlcruz129, on 01 February 2013 - 01:16 PM said:

Skullblade, on 01 February 2013 - 01:03 PM said:

diegodan1893, on 01 February 2013 - 11:24 AM said:

Lets make a peripheral! After reading all posts, I have some ideas:

• You need to craft a satellite and a launcher (this doesn't behave like a peripheral, only Minecraft). Then launch the satellite and it will stay in the sky.
• Then you need to make a parabolic antenna (peripheral) that you can use to send and receive messages. When you send a message it will check if there is a satellite and if it can see the sky from its position.
• It won't work with rednet network and it will be based on chanels.
• It will be slow, it will take time to send messages (a second for example).
• The range will be infinite (since there isn't any block in the world) but it won't work well with rain/snow (maybe slower).
• You will still need a chunk loader for the sender and the reciver, but we can make parabolics to be chunkloaders.

This is the same as write 99999 in the rednet range in the config file, but without cheating, since you need to craft the satellite and wheather matters…
If you want, we can start a github project where anyone can help (like openCCSensors). What do you think?

That seems like seems like a good idea and i would love to help u code it….but I suck at all other languages but lua…..i need 2 learn more…

Have you tried The New Boston? He has tutorials on a ton of programming languages, and even stuff like Physics. He has ~200 videos on Java, which is my favorite language.

I'm going to have to look into that I've been looking for a place to learn more about coding so i can b more edumacatered :D/>

If anyone ever implements network mapped routing, then you need nothing more than a wireless turtle to act as a rednet relay satellite.

Hehe, I'd use satellites to take out my enemies communcation arrays or to replace them with my own ones.

KillaVanilla: I like your idea, it makes the peripheral more realistic and less overpowered. As the height limit is 255, the satellite can't "move" it but we can save its coordinates in a file and change them in every movement. In order to launch the satellite, you need a controller where you set the coords of the satellite x and z (to work with GPS Api like in ComputerCraft and not real Minecraft coords), and then launch it. In the controller you can move it by making a path (for example: two blocks left and one up) and it will say the fuel cost and the time it will take to move.

The satellite won't be able to run any program, it only acts as a repeater. In the antenna you set a channel and in another computer you need the same channel so they can comunicate. If you want private messages in a server, encrypt them. But if the satellite receives a message like "gps locate" or something like that, it will return its coords. As current GPS API in vanilla CC work with rednet, we will need to make a new GPS API for this peripheral.

TheArchitect, on 01 February 2013 - 05:17 PM said:

If anyone ever implements network mapped routing, then you need nothing more than a wireless turtle to act as a rednet relay satellite.

I don't know what you meant.


I'll create a GitHub repo and a new topic in the peripherals forum, but I need a name. Maybe RedSat, like in this topic name? Leave suggestions.

EDIT: I forget to say that you will need to wait some days before I make the topic because I need to get all ready and make basic functionality before start.

there are already ways of doing this (although some may consider it cheating to have "linked" floppy disks which reference the same folder), though it is only possible with inventory editing

digipenguin, on 02 February 2013 - 07:50 AM said:

there are already ways of doing this (although some may consider it cheating to have "linked" floppy disks which reference the same folder), though it is only possible with inventory editing

Yes, that is cheating, and you can't use it to GPS locate computers and turtles.

diegodan1893, on 02 February 2013 - 07:46 AM said:

KillaVanilla: I like your idea, it makes the peripheral more realistic and less overpowered. As the height limit is 255, the satellite can't "move" it but we can save its coordinates in a file and change them in every movement. In order to launch the satellite, you need a controller where you set the coords of the satellite x and z (to work with GPS Api like in ComputerCraft and not real Minecraft coords), and then launch it. In the controller you can move it by making a path (for example: two blocks left and one up) and it will say the fuel cost and the time it will take to move.

The satellite won't be able to run any program, it only acts as a repeater. In the antenna you set a channel and in another computer you need the same channel so they can comunicate. If you want private messages in a server, encrypt them. But if the satellite receives a message like "gps locate" or something like that, it will return its coords. As current GPS API in vanilla CC work with rednet, we will need to make a new GPS API for this peripheral.
-snip-

Okay, quick disclaimer: I have no idea how Minecraft or ComputerCraft work on the java side, and I only know how classes work from C++.
1. Yeah, that's similar to what I had in mind, but why not just use the "normal" Minecraft coordinates while manually setting Y? There's nothing in CC that needs to know the exact world XYZ coordinates of a computer.

2. Wait, so *just* repeats rednet messages and responds to GPS queries? Why not just emulate a terminal while discarding all attempts to write to screen? That's the only way I can see positioning and stationkeeping working as I envisioned it, and would make the peripheral fun to use. If you need to send a program up, simply provide a floppy disk with a startup file in it. We could even use this base to branch out into a whole "unmanned space exploration" mod or something.
However, it's your mod; don't listen to me if you don't want to.

diegodan1893, on 02 February 2013 - 07:46 AM said:

TheArchitect, on 01 February 2013 - 05:17 PM said:

If anyone ever implements network mapped routing, then you need nothing more than a wireless turtle to act as a rednet relay satellite.

I don't know what you meant.

What I was thinking of was a program for computers/turtles to act as a rednet relay - in other words, to perform network mapping and organised routing, much like real life routers do. You give them data and a destination, and they'll find the way to get it there.

It's not very different in CC. Router computers would poll the network-enabled computers within reach (including other router computers) to get an idea of the local network topology and generate routing tables accordingly. When you give them a destination (a computer ID you want to send data to), they would poll all known and connected network nodes to find the destination CC ID and, if it exists and is listening to network packets, to relay the data through the shortest path available.

Once you have that program, where you just send your data to the nearest network node and let it reach its destination from there, it's not a stretch at all if one of those nodes, instead of being a computer sitting on the roof of a building, was a turtle hovering at y=255. Being a turtle only for the ease of sending it up. This would be your relay satellite, no additional content added to the mod.

what if the Redsatellites get sent up with a code on a disk drive named as startup and when the satellite reaches the desired altitude it stops and the only program it will run is the startup program but it will have a full functionality of computers other then displaying to screen and redstone. You could use something like nsh to control the satellite from the ground and install programs though a rednet file sending program. It would allow creativity in how the satellite are programmed. You could even use them as a external file host and have it only send the files if you provide the correct password :D/>

Hope this makes sense as this idea is one of the best i have seen in the suggestions area in a long time

diegodan1893, on 01 February 2013 - 11:24 AM said:

Lets make a peripheral! After reading all posts, I have some ideas:

<snip>

It won't work with rednet network and it will be based on chanels.

Is there a reason to make it unlike rednet? I don't know if peripherals can send and receive rednet messages currently (it's not part of the peripheral API, though, so it's unsupported by dan200 and Cloudy).

diegodan1893, on 01 February 2013 - 11:24 AM said:

• It will be slow, it will take time to send messages (a second for example).

Meaning you can only send one message per second (emulating low bandwidth), or you can send messages as fast as you like but they all take a second to get there (emulating speed-of-light delay)?

diegodan1893, on 01 February 2013 - 11:24 AM said:

• You will still need a chunk loader for the sender and the reciver, but we can make parabolics to be chunkloaders.

No. No more chunkloaders that aren't dedicated as chunkloaders. Do you even know how many servers ban quarries because they load chunks? If people want a chunkloader they can get a chunkloader.

KillaVanilla, on 01 February 2013 - 01:58 PM said:

Oooo, idea! What if, in addition to controlling whatever services the satellite provided (GPS, etc.), it also controlled manuevering / stablilization? Then, if the computer crashes or returns to shell, then the satellite comes tumbling down to the ground…possibly on your property. This would also allow the satellite to move around within a pre-defined fuel limit (think turtles, but no mining/item manipulation/refueling).

Okay, a bit more explanation for my sub-idea:

When initally launching your satellite, it's "height" is set to 520 (or so).
Every day, your satellite has a chance of lowering itself on its own.
Every 5 days, the satellite lowers itself on its own if it has not already done so within the last 5 days (this should probably be configurable)
If your satellite's height drops below 500, it re-enters the atmosphere and hits a random spot in the 10 chunks surrounding where it "was" (If you didn't move the satellite at all, this would be the launch site). When it hits the ground, it causes a small explosion (think IC2's ITNT, but slightly bigger and less cubical).
To prevent people from simply moving up and up and up, all altitude change operations take 2-3 fuel (dependent on the time of day) and only take effect the next day. This does not apply to moving left, right, forward, or backwards.
The satellite only starts with 100 or so fuel (again, this should probably be configurable).
Satellites that "collide" (get within 5 or so blocks from each other) tumble out of orbit. Yes, both the collider and the collidee. Alternatively, they could just explode in orbit, showering the ground with small fragments. (Think what happens when a whole satellite tumbles out of orbit, but with smaller explosions, and there are more of them.)

Is the fuel thing really necessary?
Satellites could just have a "satellite.boost()" function they have to call every now and then to show they're not frozen, and a "satellite.deorbit()" function if you want to bring them down immediately.
I probably wouldn't have a reason to move my satellites sideways, but I wouldn't mind the option being there.

In order to de-orbit satellites that are unresponsive but still calling satellite.boost(), perhaps the satellite BIOS could deorbit the satellite when it receives a specific message, but only if the sender is within a few blocks horizontally of the satellite - so you can't deorbit random satellites, you'd have to control the launch site.

Skullblade, on 02 February 2013 - 03:46 PM said:

what if the Redsatellites get sent up with a code on a disk drive named as startup and when the satellite reaches the desired altitude it stops and the only program it will run is the startup program but it will have a full functionality of computers other then displaying to screen and redstone. You could use something like nsh to control the satellite from the ground and install programs though a rednet file sending program. It would allow creativity in how the satellite are programmed. You could even use them as a external file host and have it only send the files if you provide the correct password :D/>

Hope this makes sense as this idea is one of the best i have seen in the suggestions area in a long time

I think that's the idea.

diegodan1893, on 02 February 2013 - 07:46 AM said:

KillaVanilla: I like your idea, it makes the peripheral more realistic and less overpowered. As the height limit is 255, the satellite can't "move" it but we can save its coordinates in a file and change them in every movement. In order to launch the satellite, you need a controller where you set the coords of the satellite x and z (to work with GPS Api like in ComputerCraft and not real Minecraft coords), and then launch it. In the controller you can move it by making a path (for example: two blocks left and one up) and it will say the fuel cost and the time it will take to move.

The satellite won't be able to run any program, it only acts as a repeater. In the antenna you set a channel and in another computer you need the same channel so they can comunicate. If you want private messages in a server, encrypt them. But if the satellite receives a message like "gps locate" or something like that, it will return its coords. As current GPS API in vanilla CC work with rednet, we will need to make a new GPS API for this peripheral.

What's the fun in non-programmable satellites?

KillaVanilla, on 02 February 2013 - 11:57 AM said:

Okay, quick disclaimer: I have no idea how Minecraft or ComputerCraft work on the java side, and I only know how classes work from C++.
1. Yeah, that's similar to what I had in mind, but why not just use the "normal" Minecraft coordinates while manually setting Y? There's nothing in CC that needs to know the exact world XYZ coordinates of a computer.

2. Wait, so *just* repeats rednet messages and responds to GPS queries? Why not just emulate a terminal while discarding all attempts to write to screen? That's the only way I can see positioning and stationkeeping working as I envisioned it, and would make the peripheral fun to use. If you need to send a program up, simply provide a floppy disk with a startup file in it. We could even use this base to branch out into a whole "unmanned space exploration" mod or something.
However, it's your mod; don't listen to me if you don't want to.

1) There's actually very little in ComputerCraft that needs computers to be blocks - there's a deliberate gap between the code for computers and the code for computer blocks. I was able to make computers run on smart-cards, which are items, for Immibis's Peripherals, but that idea was scrapped.

2) I completely agree.

TheArchitect, on 02 February 2013 - 03:40 PM said:

What I was thinking of was a program for computers/turtles to act as a rednet relay - in other words, to perform network mapping and organised routing, much like real life routers do. You give them data and a destination, and they'll find the way to get it there.

It's not very different in CC. Router computers would poll the network-enabled computers within reach (including other router computers) to get an idea of the local network topology and generate routing tables accordingly. When you give them a destination (a computer ID you want to send data to), they would poll all known and connected network nodes to find the destination CC ID and, if it exists and is listening to network packets, to relay the data through the shortest path available.

Once you have that program, where you just send your data to the nearest network node and let it reach its destination from there, it's not a stretch at all if one of those nodes, instead of being a computer sitting on the roof of a building, was a turtle hovering at y=255. Being a turtle only for the ease of sending it up. This would be your relay satellite, no additional content added to the mod.

The point of satellites isn't to relay messages around your base. I've used turtles for that easily in the past.
The point of satellites is for long-distance communication, such as to other players' bases that are outside the chunk loading distance from your base.

immibis, on 02 February 2013 - 06:32 PM said:

Is the fuel thing really necessary?
Satellites could just have a "satellite.boost()" function they have to call every now and then to show they're not frozen, and a "satellite.deorbit()" function if you want to bring them down immediately.
I probably wouldn't have a reason to move my satellites sideways, but I wouldn't mind the option being there.

Changing position may be useful or not but I do not see real reason of periodical boost. If satellite become frozen it just not responding. It can be restarted by server restart or other event. Or let it be just a star in the sky. ;)/>

In order to de-orbit satellites that are unresponsive but still calling satellite.boost(), perhaps the satellite BIOS could deorbit the satellite when it receives a specific message, but only if the sender is within a few blocks horizontally of the satellite - so you can't deorbit random satellites, you'd have to control the launch site.

No need to bios hook. It is too destructive. Someone can send a turtle high above your house and ask your sat to drop.
Just launch something to collide with unwanted satellite. It is destructive too, but unavoidable.

KillaVanilla, on 02 February 2013 - 11:57 AM said:

Okay, quick disclaimer: I have no idea how Minecraft or ComputerCraft work on the java side, and I only know how classes work from C++.
1. Yeah, that's similar to what I had in mind, but why not just use the "normal" Minecraft coordinates while manually setting Y? There's nothing in CC that needs to know the exact world XYZ coordinates of a computer.

I like have my house in 0,0 coords but I have been thinking and use Minecraft coords probably should be better.

KillaVanilla, on 02 February 2013 - 11:57 AM said:

2. Wait, so *just* repeats rednet messages and responds to GPS queries? Why not just emulate a terminal while discarding all attempts to write to screen? That's the only way I can see positioning and stationkeeping working as I envisioned it, and would make the peripheral fun to use. If you need to send a program up, simply provide a floppy disk with a startup file in it. We could even use this base to branch out into a whole "unmanned space exploration" mod or something.
However, it's your mod; don't listen to me if you don't want to.

Skullblade, on 02 February 2013 - 03:46 PM said:

what if the Redsatellites get sent up with a code on a disk drive named as startup and when the satellite reaches the desired altitude it stops and the only program it will run is the startup program but it will have a full functionality of computers other then displaying to screen and redstone. You could use something like nsh to control the satellite from the ground and install programs though a rednet file sending program. It would allow creativity in how the satellite are programmed. You could even use them as a external file host and have it only send the files if you provide the correct password :D/>

Hope this makes sense as this idea is one of the best i have seen in the suggestions area in a long time

I had the same idea yestarday, but it was too late so I didn't posted it. The satellite will have a disk drive that will execute like CC computers but without writing anything in the screen (there is no screen). But you can't change the disk or the program while is in the space. To change programs you must make a program in the disk that allows you to do that. It will be like a normal CC computer but you can't go there to change the disk or control it manually.
I really like this idea, think of all the things we can make with this! Obviously limited to the disk space limit in CC.

TheArchitect, on 02 February 2013 - 03:40 PM said:

Once you have that program, where you just send your data to the nearest network node and let it reach its destination from there, it's not a stretch at all if one of those nodes, instead of being a computer sitting on the roof of a building, was a turtle hovering at y=255. Being a turtle only for the ease of sending it up. This would be your relay satellite, no additional content added to the mod.

This won't work if the computers are too far, there will be unloaded chunks in the middle of them and turtles can't work in unloaded chunks.

immibis, on 02 February 2013 - 06:32 PM said:

Is there a reason to make it unlike rednet? I don't know if peripherals can send and receive rednet messages currently (it's not part of the peripheral API, though, so it's unsupported by dan200 and Cloudy).

At first this peripheral was only a way to do rednet range to be infinite ingame so it was a bit owerpowered. I thought it can be solved if it work with channels instead of computers ID so if you want a private message you must encrypt it. Now with fuel and other ideas this isn't really necessary but I like the channels idea, and I don't know if peripherals can interact with rednet.

immibis, on 02 February 2013 - 06:32 PM said:

Meaning you can only send one message per second (emulating low bandwidth), or you can send messages as fast as you like but they all take a second to get there (emulating speed-of-light delay)?

I want to emulate speed-of-light delay. I said a second as an example, maybe it will be 0.5 seconds or less.

immibis, on 02 February 2013 - 06:32 PM said:

No. No more chunkloaders that aren't dedicated as chunkloaders. Do you even know how many servers ban quarries because they load chunks? If people want a chunkloader they can get a chunkloader.

I agree with that.

immibis, on 02 February 2013 - 06:32 PM said:

Is the fuel thing really necessary?
Satellites could just have a "satellite.boost()" function they have to call every now and then to show they're not frozen, and a "satellite.deorbit()" function if you want to bring them down immediately.
I probably wouldn't have a reason to move my satellites sideways, but I wouldn't mind the option being there.

In order to de-orbit satellites that are unresponsive but still calling satellite.boost(), perhaps the satellite BIOS could deorbit the satellite when it receives a specific message, but only if the sender is within a few blocks horizontally of the satellite - so you can't deorbit random satellites, you'd have to control the launch site.

I think its better with fuel so you can move satellites, useful when you want to create a GPS network and the satellites are wrong placed. Also this make satellites wont be for an infinite time in the space, they will fall after being a long time in the space.
To move the satellite or call satellite.deorbit() you only can use the controller with the GUI to do it manually and without computers or with a computer next to the controller using it as a peripheral. This prevent griefers to deorbit your satellite.


A lot of messages! Hope I have not forgotten to answer any. By the way, I'm really bad with names, do you like RedSat?

Sebra, on 02 February 2013 - 07:38 PM said:

Changing position may be useful or not but I do not see real reason of periodical boost. If satellite become frozen it just not responding. It can be restarted by server restart or other event. Or let it be just a star in the sky. ;)/>

No need to bios hook. It is too destructive. Someone can send a turtle high above your house and ask your sat to drop.
Just launch something to collide with unwanted satellite. It is destructive too, but unavoidable.

Yeah, launching something to collide with it is probably better.

Sebra, on 02 February 2013 - 07:38 PM said:

immibis, on 02 February 2013 - 06:32 PM said:

Is there a reason to make it unlike rednet? I don't know if peripherals can send and receive rednet messages currently (it's not part of the peripheral API, though, so it's unsupported by dan200 and Cloudy).

At first this peripheral was only a way to do rednet range to be infinite ingame so it was a bit owerpowered. I thought it can be solved if it work with channels instead of computers ID so if you want a private message you must encrypt it. Now with fuel and other ideas this isn't really necessary but I like the channels idea, and I don't know if peripherals can interact with rednet.

Not infinite, just with a longer range than ground computers, and no chunkloading requirements as satellites would exist outside of chunks.
Satellites could communicate with other satellites over a long distance, but only with ground computers that are in the area underneath them (and several chunks to each side). You'd still have to make a chain of satellites if you wanted really long distances.

Sebra, on 02 February 2013 - 07:38 PM said:

think its better with fuel so you can move satellites, useful when you want to create a GPS network and the satellites are wrong placed. Also this make satellites wont be for an infinite time in the space, they will fall after being a long time in the space.
To move the satellite or call satellite.deorbit() you only can use the controller with the GUI to do it manually and without computers or with a computer next to the controller using it as a peripheral. This prevent griefers to deorbit your satellite.

Is the controller one of the blocks you use to launch the satellite? You should need to either use satellite.deorbit() from your program, or collide something with it.

Sebra, on 02 February 2013 - 07:38 PM said:

A lot of messages! Hope I have not forgotten to answer any. By the way, I'm really bad with names, do you like RedSat?

Well, if someone makes a network of satellites, they could call it Skynet :P/>

Bad quoting, Immibis ;)/>

i can make the model for satalites
but i need someone to put it in the game using the wireless modem code but with longer ranger

immibis, on 02 February 2013 - 06:32 PM said:

-snip-
Is the fuel thing really necessary?
Satellites could just have a "satellite.boost()" function they have to call every now and then to show they're not frozen, and a "satellite.deorbit()" function if you want to bring them down immediately.
I probably wouldn't have a reason to move my satellites sideways, but I wouldn't mind the option being there.

In order to de-orbit satellites that are unresponsive but still calling satellite.boost(), perhaps the satellite BIOS could deorbit the satellite when it receives a specific message, but only if the sender is within a few blocks horizontally of the satellite - so you can't deorbit random satellites, you'd have to control the launch site.

I can't speak for everyone else, but I think repositioning satellites would be very useful for some applications (GPS and rednet relays/routers come to mind) and would reduce the hassle to initially set one up. You could set up a "launch facility" and simply launch and maneuver your satellites to the correct position. The "boosting" that's occasionally required also makes it challenging and less overpowered. A "deorbit" function would be nice, but it could also introduce the possibility of griefing (launch satellite, maneuver to target, deorbit, target goes boom).

mtwiscool, on 03 February 2013 - 04:02 AM said:

i can make the model for satalites
but i need someone to put it in the game using the wireless modem code but with longer ranger

…Why would a satellite that's not supposed to be seen need a model?

immibis, on 03 February 2013 - 01:44 AM said:

Is the controller one of the blocks you use to launch the satellite? You should need to either use satellite.deorbit() from your program, or collide something with it.

Yes its required to launch the satellite and will be the only block that can satellite.deorbit() or move your satellite, I plan to make it work with a GUI (right click on it) and as a peripheral so you can control it with a computer.

KillaVanilla, on 03 February 2013 - 06:52 AM said:

…Why would a satellite that's not supposed to be seen need a model?

Before launch it you can see it, so they need a model.

mtwiscool, on 03 February 2013 - 04:02 AM said:

i can make the model for satalites
but i need someone to put it in the game using the wireless modem code but with longer ranger

I will not accept contributors, until I have done everything in Github and have a topic in pheriperals forum.

KillaVanilla, on 03 February 2013 - 06:52 AM said:

…Why would a satellite that's not supposed to be seen need a model?

Best way it will be seen on a sky as a red star.

diegodan1893, on 03 February 2013 - 10:23 AM said:

KillaVanilla, on 03 February 2013 - 06:52 AM said:

…Why would a satellite that's not supposed to be seen need a model?

Before launch it you can see it, so they need a model.

I forgot about that,

Sebra, on 03 February 2013 - 09:09 PM said:

KillaVanilla, on 03 February 2013 - 06:52 AM said:

…Why would a satellite that's not supposed to be seen need a model?

Best way it will be seen on a sky as a red star.

When I meant "not seen", I meant "not seen on the ground". However, I agree with you. Seeing satellites as red stars would be cool.

although, please add an option in the config so that satelites dont need boost(), or they have an infinite fuel supply.
I almost think that sattelites should have their own config file for things like modem range (enable infinite range)
also, I don't really like the concept of sattelite collisions. griefing is bad enough without sattelites being detroyed (or just throw it as an option in the config)
I love the idea redsat so I can stop with these stupid linked floppies (and the format command wrecking them…)
I also agree that they shouldn't use rednet, but a more "insecure" frequency system.

I guess wired rednet with WR-CBE would work for some people, but WR-CBE doesn't work on my computer. some forge error…

Speaking of configuration settings, I really don't see a problem with increasing the max range of modems if you want. It's even fairly realistic to do so.

I think I will have everything ready to start tomorrow or Thursday.

ChunLing, on 04 February 2013 - 10:49 PM said:

Speaking of configuration settings, I really don't see a problem with increasing the max range of modems if you want. It's even fairly realistic to do so.

Yeah, but satellites are awesomer.
Also nothing short of almost-infinite range will let you communicate beyond loaded chunks.

By the way, immibis, the modem peripheral has lots of interfaces and such that are easily implemented by a custom modem peripheral.

Would you like a red sky when its night?

Oh my gosh been away for a few months and this topic is hot :D/> awesome!!! Some really cool ideas here!

immibis, on 06 February 2013 - 12:41 PM said:

ChunLing, on 04 February 2013 - 10:49 PM said:

Speaking of configuration settings, I really don't see a problem with increasing the max range of modems if you want. It's even fairly realistic to do so.

Yeah, but satellites are awesomer.
Also nothing short of almost-infinite range will let you communicate beyond loaded chunks.

You can comunicate with in infinite range to any loaded chuncks, even when there are unloaded chunks between.
But I still like the idea of satalites.

So I just read this post for the first time. My general vision of this is a relay/satellite type of block that can communicate with computers maybe using a new event, "rednet_relay" or "rednet_sat". So:

[Relay]
>id
Relay ID: 1
>edit receive
local event, id, message = os.pullEvent("rednet_message")
if message == "What is your ID?" then
  rednet.send(id, os.getRelayID())
end

[Computer sending the message]
>edit send
relayID = 1
message = read()
rednet.send(relayID, message)
local event, message = os.pullEvent("rednet_message")
print(message)

This is the basic jist of the relay (Through my eyes) This definately sounds like a neat idea and I hope it is implemented soon ;)/> This will make for some new interesting builds on servers. Maybe a huge database of information easily accessible by players far from the computer/database.

I like this idea. Maybe you could make Ronald Reagan's legacy if you have ICBM on your client as well.

Combo, on 03 March 2013 - 11:50 AM said:

Would you like a red sky when its night?

What the heck are you talking about?

Roadhouse699, on 08 March 2013 - 11:49 AM said:

I like this idea. Maybe you could make Ronald Reagan's legacy if you have ICBM on your client as well.

Yo dawg, we heard you like killing things, so we put a laser on your satellite on your missile on your torpedo on your submarine.

immibis, on 08 March 2013 - 01:02 PM said:

Roadhouse699, on 08 March 2013 - 11:49 AM said:

I like this idea. Maybe you could make Ronald Reagan's legacy if you have ICBM on your client as well.

Yo dawg, we heard you like killing things, so we put a laser on your satellite on your missile on your torpedo on your submarine.

…on your bed :3

immibis, on 08 March 2013 - 01:02 PM said:

Yo dawg, we heard you like killing things, so we put a laser on your satellite on your missile on your torpedo on your submarine.

Yes, that is very creative of you immibis :P/>

SuicidalSTDz, on 09 March 2013 - 12:03 PM said:

immibis, on 08 March 2013 - 01:02 PM said:

Yo dawg, we heard you like killing things, so we put a laser on your satellite on your missile on your torpedo on your submarine.

Yes, that is very creative of you immibis :P/>

So I guess you did the +1 and I kinda guess that I did the other one but I'm not sure :P/>
But back to the topic.
I would like to see this happen since it would be awesome and I would'nt mind it at all.

It would be very awesome, wouldn't it?

I'd make the turtle a sattelite instead. then have it accept a protocol to allow you to send it to different coordinates at max altitude. I use repeater towers on my server, but for the high earth orbit stuff a wireless turtle would be great.

What about if this was the recipie?


S = solar panel
E = Emerald
D = Diamond
I = Iron
R = Redstone
M= modem
N = Nether Star
Wing = W

I I I
SSE
I I I

Antenna = A

INI
IMI
IRI

Satilite Computer = C

EEE
ERE
EEE

Satilite

SAS
WCW
SCS

And to launch it:

Rocket Pad:
I I I
I I I

Rocket: (N = netherack F= Flint And Steel)

I
IFI
INI

If I see one more recipe in a suggestion post the threads concerned will be locked.

Cloudy, on 18 March 2013 - 12:58 PM said:

If I see one more recipe in a suggestion post the threads concerned will be locked.

Sorry!?