A Few Words

I have been doing a good bit of thinking, and that sort of thing doesn't happen often. However, I would like to share a few things with you in the interest of cultivating a stronger unity between those of us who come here to help others. I am sure that most of you have noticed the hostilities that tend to spawn from differing opinions. This is what I hope to eliminate, or at least initiate the process.

Why do we help?
No matter the reasoning you apply to this question, it comes down to the simple fact that helping someone feels good. You may read topics which you do not know the solution to, and you may learn from those topics, but at that point you are no longer here to help, you are here to learn. I do this quite a bit and I am certainly not bashing this practice, in fact I encourage it.
My point is that when you are actively helping to solve a problem, you feel good about yourself.

Why do we rage?
It is difficult to pin down a single cause for our rage, but it can be narrowed down to a few root causes.

1. You're wrong, and someone else is quick to point it out.
2. Opinions.
3. Unreasonable human beings.

1. When you make a post which turns out to be incorrect, it can be frustrating when your mistake is pointed out to you, especially if it is done in a crude manner. I fall victim to this quite easily as I take great pride in all of the work I do and it hurts to have someone else rake their claws through it. However, I am working on this, and so should you. Just remember that knowledge is that which you hold to be true, which in reality remains true. It is better to be corrected than to have false beliefs.

2. Opinions have been a hindrance to science since its conception. Just remember that people will have different opinions on how a specific problem should be tackled. If two people post different solutions to the same problem, this should not start a quarrel about which solution is better. It is up to the user to decide which solution to use, be it for reasons of efficiency or simplicity. If the 'owners' of the opposing solutions are capable of it, then a constructive argument would be beneficial to everyone involved.

3. Sometimes people are simply unreasonable and there is truly nothing that can be done, so just ignore them. Call them trolls,jerks or idiots, nothing good can come of them. Responding to them will only encourage them, so do your best to ignore them despite the temptation.

Keep it civil.
Keep it sophisticated.
Computers run on logic, so don't let emotions get in the way.

Very good words!
+1!

In regards to your comments about being corrected, I'd ask everyone to keep in mind that putting out incorrect information is not simply a mistake on the part of the person putting it out, it has a much farther reach than that. Putting out bad information in an authoritative manner can have consequences for several weeks. This means that we may be seeing several to many questions spawned from code in a single bad answer post.

This is the reason that I won't hesitate to correct someone putting out incorrect information. I don't care who that person is, or whether it hurts their feelings. If you put out bad information, or if you're not sure that you're putting out good information or not, don't be surprised when your post gets stomped on. This goes doubly if you're providing code for someone. We can see that code snippet show up dozens of times, so please be sure that what you post follows good coding practices and is correct code.

None of this should have needed to be said.

Lyqyd, on 26 October 2012 - 03:57 PM said:

None of this should have needed to be said.

Unfortunate that it did.

Until computers program themselves, this kind of thing needs to be said, and saying such things is part of being a person.

Don't just stomp on other's mistakes, explain what they did wrong. Stomping on a mistake does not help correct the misinformation, it just makes you look mean. Explaining the mistake takes a little more effort than just stomping it, but it actually corrects the misinformation.

I don't mind being stomped every now and then. sometimes it's what you need

I don't mind, but it does little to help. Stomping may help make others afraid to make the same mistake, but doesn't necessarily tell them exactly what the mistake was.

ChunLing, on 26 October 2012 - 08:09 PM said:

I don't mind, but it does little to help. Stomping may help make others afraid to make the same mistake, but doesn't necessarily tell them exactly what the mistake was.

To be fair, if you ever plan on having a job doing anything, you should probably get used to your mistakes getting stomped on.
It sucks if you have a fragile pride, but you have to learn to deal with it eventually.

Ditto8353, on 26 October 2012 - 08:12 PM said:

ChunLing, on 26 October 2012 - 08:09 PM said:

I don't mind, but it does little to help. Stomping may help make others afraid to make the same mistake, but doesn't necessarily tell them exactly what the mistake was.

To be fair, if you ever plan on having a job doing anything, you should probably get used to your mistakes getting stomped on.
It sucks if you have a fragile pride, but you have to learn to deal with it eventually.

+1 for that brilliant insight, good sir.

Of course it does no good to be upset about being stomped (though very few people who are significantly successful in their chosen field make a habit of putting up with it either). What I'm saying is that when you have the urge to stomp rather than explain, you should resist it because stomping is not a good management or teaching technique. Explaining is harder than stomping, this is of course why stomping is tempting. But stomping is only effective if the mistake was intentional, that is, the person making it knew perfectly well what they should have done and did something else instead. If they make a mistake because they do not know the right way to do something, then punishing them for the mistake does nothing but make them afraid of making another mistake that they still don't know how to avoid.

Yes, some of the mistakes we see try our patience. But if we only punish people rather than teaching them the right way to do things, they will only learn not to expect help.

I don't think Lyqyd was talking about the mistakes that people come here to solve. I believe he was talking about people trying to help even though they do not understand the subject. When someone posts a solution to a User, the User will tend to assume that the solution is correct and well-thought-out. However, if the person posting the solution does not have extensive knowledge on the subject, the solution may not be correct and may in fact cause other problems.

It comes down to being ignorant (the Users looking for help) or irresponsible (posting misinformation in a place where solutions are assumed to come from experienced programmers).

The ignorant should not be stomped, and I have never actually seen that happen here.
The irresponsible should.

If someone is deliberately spreading misinformation, then of course there needs to be punitive action (which cannot reasonably be limited to mere insults). But I think it is a bit much to assume that anyone here knows everything there is to know about Lua or programming in general. Most of the time, if someone is supplying a solution that is wrong, it is because they do not know it is wrong (or at least don't know a better solution), and an explanation of what is wrong would be more helpful (and credible to the person seeking solutions) than simply asserting that it is morally deficient.

If we are serious about excluding everyone that doesn't know everything from commenting on anything least they make a mistake, then this forum should be radically restructured.

And the truth is, to the irresponsible, a clear analysis of what is wrong with their proposed solution is far more devastating than simply insulting it or them. While it is rather welcome to those simply trying to find out the best solutions.

Yes, I was referring to incorrect information in answer posts. Also, stomping and explaining are not mutually exclusive, and I do try to always explain if I can. Occasionally I'll run into a bad post when I am checking the forums on break at work and don't have time to compose an explanation, so I'll point out that they are wrong right away and try to remember to come back and explain why later. I'm here to help people learn, and while most posts don't require the depth of knowledge with ComputerCraft or Lua that I can offer, I don't hesitate to point out when bad information is being espoused. This means that I could be perceived as being harsh or abrasive in my postings, which is certainly not the intent.

We certainly don't need to exclude the less-experienced persons who wish to help. For the record, I'm quite glad to have many people of all experience levels here and I hope we can help people learn new things every day.

Nothing wrong with briefly pointing out that a suggested solution won't work, if you haven't time for more, as long as you are willing to follow up later (even if, life being what it is, you don't get the chance).